Old Bus Photos

Eastbourne Corporation – Leyland Lion – HC 8643 – 58

Eastbourne Corporation - Leyland Lion - HC 8643 - 58

Eastbourne Corporation
1928
Leyland Lion PLSC3
Leyland B32R

HC 8643 is a Leyland Lion PLSC3 some sources omit the P prefix for 1930s Leyland single deckers, but I’ve no idea why, new to the County Borough Of Eastbourne in 1928. It has Leyland’s own B32R body – with door – and we see it arriving at Duxford on 28 September 2003.

Eastbourne Corporation - Leyland Lion - HC 8643 - 58

This second view shows the fleetname and crest.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies


24/11/16 – 09:32

The Lion was a very successful model. The initial letter ‘P’ stood for pneumatic, indicating that it was devised from the outset to accept such tyres rather than being a conversion from solids. The 1926 vintage Lion was designed by J. G. Parry Thomas, who very soon afterwards turned his attention towards the car racing world. It was powered by an overhead valve four cylinder engine of 5.1 litres driving through a four speed crash gearbox, all mounted in a dropped frame chassis, though this was not as low as that on the Rackham designed six cylinder Tiger that appeared in the following year, 1927. According to G. G. Hilditch, who had one at Halifax for a time, the Lion had a top speed of about 25 mph, well above the legal limit of 12 mph that was then in force for buses.

Roger Cox


24/11/16 – 16:44

Thank you, Roger, for the explanation of why some had the P and some did not.

Pete Davies


27/11/16 – 07:36

The PLSC lion was replaced in 1929 by the Lion LT1, and at the same time the Lioness PLC was replaced by the Lioness-Six LTB. The Cub Passenger models (except the REC) carried a P as part of the designation, eg Cub SKPZ2, the first three Gnus were TEP1, although the later design with front end as the TEC1 Steer wagon was the TEC2.
P on post-war Leyland models from the Comet to the Titan meant Passenger.

Stephen Allcroft


27/11/16 – 09:30

I think that we’ve had this discussion about the PD/PS Leyland codes before, Stephen. The generally accepted view is that the ‘P’ stood for ‘post war’ in the passenger models, just as the Daimler ‘V’ in CVG/CVD stood for ‘victory’. Having initiated the ‘P’ classification in 1946, Leyland stuck with it for several years afterwards, by which time the understanding may well have changed to ‘passenger’.

Roger Cox


28/11/16 – 13:34

Roger, it was "generally accepted" for many years that the 27ft Leyland Titan body was the Farington: only it has now been found that was the final 26ft style. Doug Jack for one concludes that Passenger was intended. He had access to the Records. If post war was meant then surely it would have been applied to the freight range as well.

Stephen Allcroft


29/11/16 – 07:47

Stephen, this is a debate that, like the meaning of ‘RT’ and ‘SOS’ continues to run and run. The PD1 was originally designated the TD9 (the TD8 was the projected utility chassis that didn’t materialise), so the subsequent use of ‘P’ for ‘Passenger’ seems illogical, as, indeed does the classification ‘Passenger Double Decker/Passenger Single Decker’. The ‘P’ there is surely redundant, since lorries don’t fall into those categories. Unlike the haulage range, for which a variety of names was adopted, the bulk of the passenger range from Leyland in the early post war years consisted of Titans and Tigers, model names that were carried over from 1939. Given the general public and political mood if the time, I remain convinced that the ‘P’ stood for ‘post war. ‘Passenger Double Decker Type 1 makes no sense when seven versions of the Titan had preceded it. John Banks, for another, agrees with the ‘post war’ understanding, but I am sure that this debate will never be finally settled.

Roger Cox


30/11/16 – 06:57

The menmonics were designed, I’m sure you are aware Roger for the convenience firstly of Leyland production staff and secondly to enable the customers to order the right spare parts. In a way it is immaterial what the letters actually stood for, although we all want to know.
The first Leyland peacetime model was the 12.IB ‘Interim’ Beaver with the same drivetrain as the PD1/PS1 which could on your contention have been the ID1/IS1 as they were also intended as interim models until the "O600 TD9" and its single-deck version became available.
The major difference was the frame, which was dropped for a Passenger application, wheelbases and spring rates then determined the differences between the Tiger and the Titan, so if we disregard names they were always variants of the same passenger model.
If you are right then Leyland designated the Comet bus as Postwar and not the Comet Lorry, although both were launched in 1947, that would be bizarre.

Stephen Allcroft


30/11/16 – 15:49

I am afraid that I remain unconvinced, Stephen. In the cases of the Titan and Tiger, I believe that the change in the initial letter from T to P was intended to mean ‘post war’. The Comet was a haulage model that was adapted to passenger functions, and yes, the ‘P’ did signify ‘passenger in the designation CPO1 etc. However, I think you are reading a degree of consistency in model naming that was probably never there. If your theory is correct, the Comet bus/coach should have been called the PCO1. In the Comet, the letter ‘O’ stood for oil engine, but the same letter ‘O’ was used in export Tiger models such as OPS1 and OPS2, in which case it meant ‘overseas’.

Roger Cox


02/12/16 – 07:06

God Forbid I should accuse any manufacturer of consistency in nomenclature! The OPSU1, 2 and 3 were replaced by the ERT2 3 and 1, while the Leyland designed BUT ETB1 ran concurrent with both. The OPSU3 had been forgotten when the 36 foot Leopard became PSU3, and not L3, the RTC and L1/L2 being replaced by PSU4 in 1967 and PSU5 launched in 1968 which is 23 years after the end of World War two.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyland_Royal_Tiger_PSU  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyland_Royal_Tiger_Worldmaster  
AEC is presumed to have chosen 2 for semi-automatic transmission and 3 for synchromesh based on the number of pedals, but when a constant mesh gearbox came from Thornycroft, that became 4 (still using three pedals) and the ZF torque converter option on Swift became 5 (still using two). It is more than probable the P used in Swift and Sabre stood for Panther.
Also as the PSUC1 designation came before the Tiger Cub name and that chassis used modified Comet running units rather than anything from the Cub discontinued 12 years earlier that the C originally stood for Comet.
As a purely passenger model, the Tiger Cub had a P at the front, but as demonstrated above, nobody was consistent, the last Comet buses were sold in the early 1970s; here’s a link to one:
http://www.sct61.org.uk/lagos1

Stephen Allcroft


 

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Eastbourne Corporation – AEC Regent III – AHC 442 – 42

Eastbourne Corporation - AEC Regent III - AHC 442 - 42

Eastbourne Corporation - AEC Regent III - AHC 442 - 42

Eastbourne Corporation
1951
AEC Regent III 9613A
Bruce H30/26R

This AEC Regent III 9613A with Bruce H56R body was new in 1951 and our first view shows her inside the bus depot. Actually, that isn’t where we see her, as any Eastbourne enthusiast might tell you! She is, in fact, passing through the garage area at the back of Winchester Bus Station whilst taking part in the King Alfred Running Day on 1 January 2012. The second view shows her fleetname and crest.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies


29/10/15 – 06:36

Thank you Pete Davies for letting us see this picture of Eastbourne Corporation, Fleet No.42 – AHC 442.
This bus brings back happy memories of my time at Derby Borough/City Transport from 1975 to 1980.
Why I hear you ask, should an Eastbourne Corporation bus remind me of Derby, as they never operated such vehicles.
Well the answer is this.
At that time, 42, was owned by the late Gerald Truran the Chief Engineer at Derby, and was garaged at either Ascot Drive Depot or Osmaston Road Depot, depending on where there was space for it.
During the Summer months of the Rally season, we used to take it to many a rally, and I used to share the Driving with Gerald. It was a superb bus to drive, the Driving position was second to none and Gerald kept it in first class condition, and it could achieve a fair turn of speed, (not just downhill), and the gearbox, once mastered, was a delight in itself. The body and paint work were superb and I recall leaving a few rally fields with silverware on board.
I left Derby in June 1980 to work at Darlington Corporation Transport, and whilst we had our own Daimler deckers still in service they were not the same as that AEC.
I never saw 42 again until a couple of years ago,when I was at the Worthing Seafront Bus Rally, and whilst I was allowed on board to take a few pictures, permission was not forth coming to climb up into the cab to sample that pleasure again (simple things please and amuse old Busmen).
It is nice to see her again if only in print, and brings back happy times, not just driving her, but of my 5+ years at Derby.

Stephen Howarth


29/10/15 – 15:45

A bit of serendipity as this picture comes on the day that I had a query from an ex-colleague as to whether there are still any instances of bus garages being used as bus stations. This arose from some pictures of Worksop where a new bus station has recently replaced the stands outside the former East Midland MS garage which doubled for many years as the town’s bus station. (I would have uploaded my shot of Tiger Cub R39 in this location except that it would more or less duplicate this existing picture on this site at http://www.old-bus-photos.co.uk/?p=2817)  
I get the impression that at Winchester the stands are not inside the main building, but does anyone know of anywhere where a building is still shared by garage and passenger facilities?

Alan Murray-Rust


29/10/15 – 17:14

What memories there are in this photo as I began my 42 years on the buses with Eastbourne Corporation at Churchdale road depot in August 1961. In those days everyone started as a conductor and when the chance arose went on to the driving school, undertaken in your own time, where Leyland PD1/Bruce No 15 JK 9113 awaited your tender touch. Having passed my test at the first attempt in April 1962 I progressed to the drivers roster after some tuition on the various different types then in the fleet which of course included the Regent III’s like No 42.
At that time they were often referred to as the "Hampden Park" buses as they were used almost solely on the 7, 7a, 9 and 9a routes which were tightly timed and interworked as their lively performance was a great help with time keeping which made them very popular with all drivers and one of everyone’s favourites.
I have to agree with all Stephen Howarths favourable comments regarding these buses which were solid reliable and comfortable, No 42 is now owned by a group in the Portsmouth area one of who is a friend Clive Wilkin.

Diesel Dave


30/10/15 – 06:37

What about Marlborough St Bristol that used to be one.

Roger Burdett


30/10/15 – 06:38

I loves Eastbourne’s livery of this period. As bright as a seaside funfair and most ususual in keeping the under canopy and bonnet top the same colour as the sides – a very ‘thirties feature. All-round, a very attractive vehicle.

Chris Hebbron


30/10/15 – 06:39

Thanks for your comments, chaps. Alan, you are correct in thinking that, in Winchester, the garage is at the back of the Bus Station. Make the most of it, though, as redevelopment looms!

Pete Davies


01/11/15 – 05:59

Roger, "used to be one" is correct – now completely redeveloped as a bus station only. But, yesterday, I alighted from a trentbarton "seven" inside the "old" Belper bus station/depot – the (upper) maintenance bay is now used by a tyre company, but if buses still overnight in the (lower) bus station area . . .

Philip Rushworth


02/11/15 – 06:48

My first memory of these fine vehicles was as a child in 1953 somebody in my street in the old town area of Eastbourne hired a corporation bus to take us to a fireworks display on the seafront to celebrate the Queens Coronation and it was one of these 40 types as Diesel Dave has said these buses had a distinctive tone. As Dave has said every body on Eastbourne Corporation started as a conductor so when I started in 1968 it was the same for me when I entered the driving school in 1969 the training bus was 42s sister vehicle 47 that was the start of a very interesting career for me I followed Dave to Southdown though it was a NBC Southdown Dave and I worked the early days of National Express I’m now still driving Working for one of the major companies on a part time bases working in and out of one of our big cites I’m now just starting my 47th year as a bus driver.

Tony Grover


02/11/15 – 06:49

Last time I was there, Malton still seemed to be a combined bus station/depot

Michael Keeley


02/11/15 – 06:50

Yes, they do. I think it is still 7 ’55’ reg. Scania L94/Wrights for the "sixes" service, and 2 Solo for the "sevens" service. Recently, a new roller door has been installed, headroom stated at 14′, so no more highbridge double deckers!

Allan White


 

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Eastbourne Corporation – AEC Regal III – AHC 411 – 93

AHC 411

Eastbourne Corporation
1950
AEC Regal III 6821A
East Lancs DP30R

Eastbourne Corporation purchased this single Regal III 6821A with East Lancs. DP30R body in 1950 and numbered it 11. Though they also owned a small number of other single deckers it is said that this one was intended to provide a better class of vehicle for private hire work, though it did perform its share of service work if the need arose. In the late 1960’s it was repainted from the much admired, traditional blue, yellow and white livery into the latest cream and blue version recently introduced on the Roadliners and Panthers and gradually being applied to some double deckers. Although to most this was a regrettable move, the new livery still looked very smart and their buses were always immaculately turned out.
It is seen here outside the original depot in Churchdale Road in July 1970, having just been renumbered 93. Sold to the London Bus Preservation Group in 1978, it was later repurchased by the Corporation, and has since been restored to full PSV status by them and into its original livery as no. 11 once more. It has attended many rallies, but is still also available for private hire work and even puts in the occasional appearance on service work.

Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer


16/12/13 – 07:39

AHC 411_2

Here is another shot of Eastbourne Regal 11 in the original blue primrose and white livery. This was taken in 2006 at the Worthing and Adur Rally

Roy Nicholson


23/12/13 – 06:59

Wonderful in either livery, but I do prefer the original one, as seen in the lower picture. Everything about this bus looks right: the glass louvers add style, the swoop doesn’t detract from the horizontal flow of the body, and the rear end has prewar dignity to it. Would that all coach bodies had this service-bus integrity of design.

Ian Thompson


23/12/13 – 11:22

Much as I usually prefer the original livery, Ian, in this case, I think the upper photo gives a much lighter look to the vehicle. Maybe the omission of the yellow swoop would help.

Chris Hebbron


 

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