Copyright John Stringer

United Automobile Services
1952
Bristol KSW6B
ECW H32/28R

Following all the recent enthusiastic comment regarding the Western National KS5G photo, I thought I would submit this, taken from a recently rediscovered early slide of mine.
United’s BH27 (originally BBH27), PHN 809, a KSW6B, is seen operating the 109 Seafront Service around North Marine Drive in Scarborough in 1966, previously the sole preserve of the dedicated ‘Queen Mary’ Bristol LWL’s.
New in 1952, this fine machine was withdrawn the following year, and after being stored for a further year or so was sold to North’s, the dealer, who sold it for scrap.

Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer

A full list of Bristol codes can be seen here.

29/03/12 – 08:17

Ah, Scarborough 1966 – my last year at school. We had a week’s geography field course in Scarborough. Stayed at a hotel on Castle Road, not far from the Court House where all the United town services started and terminated. I seem to remember many of them were in the hands of KSWs. We had some free time on the Sunday afternoon and three of us set off on a KSW out to Cloughton, then walked up the closed but still intact Whitby railway line as far as Stainton Dale station. Very picturesque and great fun.

Stephen Ford

29/03/12 – 11:44

As anyone who’s been on this site for long enough will know, I’m an AEC man. If you pay attention, you’ll also know I’m a Bristol/Bristol man. Many happy holidays, as a kid, in Scarborough confirmed this and Bristol engined KSWs like this (along with similar engined Lodekkas) are part of the happy memories.
I can remember days like this along the Marine Drive – and also the sea fret which was like a cloak around you!

David Oldfield

29/03/12 – 17:57

I would imagine that the area covered by United must have made them ‘Geographically at least’ one of the biggest operators in the Tilling Group. Their territory included parts of the Scottish Border Region, the whole of Northumberland and Durham, parts of Cumberland and Westmoreland and a huge chunk of North Yorkshire, in addition, they had a lot of what would now be called ‘Inter City Express Routes’ including the legendary twice daily Tyne Tees Thames service. Apart from any vehicles that came into the fleet as a result of takeovers, they were all HN Darlington registrations. I don’t have a clue how many vehicles they had, but they were always immaculate and would put many an operator to shame

Ronnie Hoye

29/03/12 – 17:57

What a nostalgic shot this is, it looks to be a very bracing day on the Scarborough sea front. This one has special meaning for me as well, as I took some of my first bus photographs with the family Agfa at the Corner Cafe while on holiday in Scarborough in the summer of 1961. I ended up with quite a few rear end views, some better than others, simply because I was quite young and shy at the time, and thus a bit reluctant to point the camera at a bus load of passengers staring at me through the windows! Consequently I still have in my collection a rather nice shot of the back end of NHN 149, waiting to depart the North Sands terminus on local service 108 to Holbeck Road. Happy days.

Dave Careless

03/02/13 – 06:58

Brighton in the early 50s had a lot of B H & District Bristol buses and if anyone from Brighton remembers the route 14, on that route was a Bristol bus that seemed to have more power than its contemporise. The 14 served a cross country route from East Brighton to Hove. This particular bus must have been supercharged or something similar. I think the registration began with HAP…

John Snelling

United Automobile Services
1954
Bristol KSW6B
ECW H32/28R

In this shot you can certainly see the difference in height between this highbridge KS and the height of the Lodekka both of which had the centre isle seating plan. The KS series succeeded the K series in 1950 when body length was increased from 26ft to 27ft, the extra foot was split equally between the bonnet length and the saloon. The reason for the extra 6in on the bonnet length was so the Gardner 6LW 8.4 litre diesel engine could be fitted without any modification being needed which was the case with the K series. Main production did not last very long as in 1953 the Lodekka went into production but I have read that the last KS was actually delivered in 1957. The ‘W’ in the coding stood for wide meaning the body width was 8ft instead of 7ft 6in, there seems to be two schools of thought what the ‘S’ stood for:
(a) ‘Short’ as if Bristol knew that a longer chassis would be allowed a few years later and ‘L’ would be used to differentiate.
(b) ‘Standard’ being that the bonnet was of a standard length to allow installation of all engine variants.
There is also the belief that all of the KS series were bodied by ECW (Eastern Coach Works).

A full list of Bristol codes can be seen here.

A full list of United codes can be seen here.

———

I had been under the impression, that the "S" stood for "stretched" to 27′ Source: "The Pocket Encyclopaedia of Buses & Trolleybuses since 1945", London, Blandford Press, 1968 p.115

David Cape

———

I was on a KSW at a rally today and overheard an apparently knowledgeable chap saying that the S indicated short, as opposed to KL which was going to be a 30-foot export model until Bristol’s government lords and masters prevented them from building for export at all.
However, the apparently knowledgeable chap thought we were on a KS, not a KSW, so the usual pinch of salt applies.

Peter Williamson

———

The Bristol KS was introduced following an increase in permitted length for double deckers from 26ft to 27ft in mid-1950. Later that year, the maximum permitted width for all buses was increased from 7ft-6ins to 8ft. and Bristol responded with the KSW. (The ‘S’ apparently stood for ‘Standard’ or ‘Short’ length chassis, with the ‘W’ predictably denoting ‘Wide’). At that time the bus industry had hoped for an increase in length to 30ft for all buses, but in the event this was limited to single deckers. Bristol had envisaged extending the K type to 30ft long (KL/KLW) but this did not materialise as a result. When legislation did allow for 30ft double deckers in 1956, the Lodekka was in its ascendancy and so no KL/KLWs were built.
ECW designed a 4-bay body for the KS-series and these could also be identified by the stepped panel below the windscreen. Although ECW bodied most of the KS-series chassis, Rotherham Corporation received six KS6Bs in 1950, fitted with East Lancashire bodies built in Bridlington. Rotherham was the only operator outside the Tilling Group to operate the KS as far as I am aware – these being ordered before the cut-off point following nationalisation of Bristol and ECW.
Bristol/ECW were not allowed to supply vehicles to concerns outside the British Transport Commission, following nationalisation by the Labour government in 1948. The ban was to appease the Conservative opposition and private sector manufacturers, and to prevent what they claimed would be unfair competition. (A clause was included to this effect in the 1947 Transport Act as a result). Restrictions on ECW’s output were also imposed, even within the BTC empire itself. Had this not been the case maybe ECW would have bodied some of London’s RTs.
The last KS (a KS6G) was delivered to Brighton, Hove and District in 1957, and the last KSW (a KSW6G) was delivered to Bristol Omnibus Company the same year.

Brendan Smith

———

Some 7ft 6in KS chassis received 8ft wide KSW bodies. Eastern Counties had quite a few, and a former ECOC driver reckoned in conversation that they needed to be driven rather gently when heavily laden, as they tended to lean alarmingly on bends.

Stephen Ford

———

Fascinating stuff indeed Brendan and I seem to recall that, nearer home, West Yorkshire had a few L and K type chassis with 8ft wide bodies.  In my view this is a very dubious practice especially with lowbridge double deckers which are prone to "nearside leaning" at the best of times.

Chris Youhill

———

I tend to agree with you Chris. Fitting bodies six inches wider than originally intended for the chassis does not sound unreasonable in theory. However, in practice as you say it would lead to increased body roll when cornering. You’re comment about "nearside leaning" with lowbridge buses was interesting, and something I’d not previously given much thought to. To the uninitiated it must have been quite entertaining going around a tight right-hander at times, and things would no doubt liven up even more as the leaf springs became tired with age!

Brendan Smith

———

The last ‘K’ type Chassis built was indeed delivered in 1957. It was actually a ‘KS6G’ supplied to the ‘Brighton Hove & District Omnibus Company’ fleet number 500 and registered ‘MPM 500′. The reason for the reversion to 7’6" Bodies was for two way operation in the narrow St. James’s Street in the heart of Kemptown, Brighton. St. James’s Street is nowadays one-way (eastbound). BH & D was one of the last former Tilling companies to take the ‘Lodekka’ which it did so in 1959, taking eight ‘LDS6B’ the for-runner of the ‘FS’ Chassis with the recently introduced Bristol BVW Engine.

John

——— Top of this posting ———

United Automobile Services
1962
Bristol MW6G
ECW DP41F

Previous shots of United Automobile single deck vehicles on this site have been bus bodied or coach bodied, here we have a dual purpose bodied MW6G. United as like many other of the tilling group had a different livery for each type of vehicle body. United’s dual purpose vehicles livery was a reversal of there bus livery of ‘red and cream’ and there coach livery was ‘cream and sage green’. There are links at the foot of this copy to see shots of a bus and coach livery. If you want to know the full specification for the MW6G you can look it up on the Bristol abbreviations here.
The above photograph was taken at Whitby bus station July 1965 and this bus is not exactly on a long distance run as Whitby Laithes I think is around the Hawsker area which is only 3-4 miles south of Whitby. On saying that though what a lovely run on the North Yorkshire Moors with the North Sea just to the side of you, not sure if this route includes calling at Robin Hoods Bay or not. If you know please leave a comment.
Quick links to see the ‘bus’ and ‘coach’ liveries.

A full list of Bristol codes can be seen here.

A full list of United codes can be seen here.

———

Whitby Laithes is just outside Whitby near Stainsacre and before you get to Hawsker. I believe there was and maybe still is a caravan site there.
Fantastic picture I would like to see some Durham District (which was part of United) photos if you have any. How well the colour suits the MW. This vehicle probably used to go on longer express services in its time to London etc.

Paul

———

Silly little anecdote concerning United and the Whitby area. I studied at the Royal Northern College of Music and the father of one of my tutors was a United inspector in the the Whitby area. Pre RE, all Bristols had manual, many crash, gearboxes. At the top of the road to Robin Hoods Bay, at that time open to traffic, was a sign telling bus drivers to stop and engage first gear. The breaking effect of an epicyclic gearbox is not the same as a manual. The poor driver of the first semi-auto RE to go down this road found this out to his cost. He panicked and threw the thing into reverse. The result was the vehicle seized up and when the fitters unscrewed the gearbox housing, a pile of dust fell to the floor.

David Oldfield

———

The very steep hill from the main road to Whitby into Fylingthorpe is still used by Uniteds successor Arriva for their 96 Scarborough Whitby Middlesbrough service. For many years it boasted signs at the top and bottom instructing drivers to engage low gear. Halfway up the hill is a hairpin bend which really sorted out the men from the boys! Following an Olympian up the hill was a fairly hair raising business Nowadays the route is worked by single deckers. A similar steep hill Blue Bank just outside Sleights also used to boast signs instructing United drivers to stop and engage low gear Indeed so steep is this road it boasts a sand filled run off for the use of out of control vehicles

Chris Hough

———

I seem to remember there is sand run off road at the bottom of Garrowby Hill on the York to Bridlington road.

Peter

———

There is one on the A59 Harrogate to Skipton road after the long decent to Bolton Abbey

Spencer

———

19/03/11 – 07:48

Can anyone tell me the colour scheme for a Leyland Lion operated by United Automobile in the Bishop Aukland area in the 1912/1920 era.

Brian

———

19/03/11 – 10:33

Peter is quite right, and the escape lane still exists at the lower end of Garrowby Hill. I once had the most unpleasant but essential task of reporting an East Yorkshire driver who, in a filthy temper all the way from Bridlington Bus Station, carried our full load in a Leyland Leopard down Garrowby Hill in top gear. As I have a very wide experience of driving Leopards I was aware of their tendency to brake fade under heavy usage and this man was very lucky indeed not to have caused a disaster. As would be expected the highly respected EYMS were very concerned and thanked me for the information – not being of a vindictive nature I hope that the man was only reprimanded but the atrocious incident could not possibly go unreported. In one of those contrasts which occur from time to time I had travelled to Bridlington that weekend on a West Yorkshire vehicle (joint services 44/45) which was driven so impeccably that I also wrote to WYRCC with a commendation – soon afterwards that driver was seen in an Inspector’s hat in Leeds !!

Chris Youhill

———

19/03/11 – 17:20

Chris, we have so much in common. I have this thing about criticism outweighing commendation and that the good should also and always be remarked upon.
To his own surprise, I wrote a letter of commendation about a First driver in Sheffield one Christmas Eve, a few years back. The standard of his driving and his interaction with passengers (yes, not customers!!!) was superb. I also got a very nice reply from management thanking me for taking the trouble. I think this is so important.

David Oldfield

———

19/11/11 – 10:07

I Googled "uas colour schemes" because I’m modelling Morpeth station 1950s and needed to check something. What do I find? An old friend from my college days.
I did two summer vacs as a conductor at Whitby depot in 1961 and 1962 and if that isn’t one of the coaches we used on the Leeds run then it’s their twin brother.
There wasn’t a service to Whitby Laithes then. The closest would have been the 93 (I think) to Robin Hoods Bay.

Clippie

———

20/11/11 – 07:35

The mention of Blue Bank reminds me that when I drove for J. J. Longstaff of Mirfield I was half way up with my Bedford VAS/Plaxton when the fan belt snapped. I was very fortunate to be able to back in to a field and then coast down to Sleights to wait to be rescued.

Philip Carlton

———

12/12/11 – 08:28

Chris Hough refers to advisory/warning signs erected around Whitby on approaches to very steep hills. There is still one such sign at the top of Blue Bank on the  approach to Sleights just outside Whitby.
I have attached two photos which please use if you wish.

Whilst not the original, it serves the same purpose – it is in fact headed up as ‘TEES’, this company being the eventual successor to United in 1990 prior to the subsequent takeover by Arriva.
The present sign is well obscured by a gorse bush but quite visible to the enthusiast. There used also to be signs at the bottom of the hills with the message ‘United – All clear’, but there is none at the foot of Blue Bank now.
As far as I know, there are no longer any signs on Lythe Bank above Sandsend and I do not know if any signs still exist at Fylingthorpe but would think it unlikely.

John Darwent

———

13/12/11 – 10:55

Apart from a few odd balls that were presumably acquired as a result of takeovers, up to the formation of National Bus Company the vast majority of United’s bus and coach fleet was made up of ECW bodied Bristol’s. However, for quite some time Whitley Bay Depot had a none ECW Guy Arab, does anyone know how it came to be there?

Ronnie Hoye

———

13/12/11 – 11:22

Ronnie, I believe it was a Willowbrook body – possibly a rebody of a war-time model. This would almost certainly be as a result of the takeover of an independent. I believe Durham and District was set up to run independents taken over in the area by United – but Whitley Bay would be far too north to be included.

David Oldfield

———

13/12/11 – 15:19

I am a regular reader but have not contributed previously.
Re the recent posts concerning the warning signs on Blue Bank there is a beautifully restored United Red “Engage Low Gear” sign at the foot of Ruswarp Bank in Ruswarp Village near Whitby. There is quite a few photos to be seen if you Google – “United Ruswarp Compulsory”
On Lythe Bank there was an intermediate sign in both directions at the Lodge gates and I recall that for climbing vehicles it read “Drivers may build up gears” or something similar. In the down direction the first sign was for 2nd gear and the intermediate prior to the steepest 1 in 4 portion was for 1st gear.
I recall others on the approach to Goathland.

Farmer G

———

15/12/11 – 15:41

Excellent – thank you for the link Farmer G

John Darwent

———

14/01/12 – 16:19

The United 1962 Bristol MW6G ECW DP41F is my colour scheme. I worked at Grange Road 1954 – 1958/9 in the drawing office. The drawings came in and we had to colour them in. The CE chose mine….
Yes Durham and District Services was set-up to run the independents United had taken over. In my time in the pump house in Central Works we had Bob I think it was who’d come in from the company at Hurworth that United/DDS had taken over.
In the drawing office there was drawings of the "stop and engage low gear" signs.

Mike Hingley

———

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

———

04/05/12 – 08:59

Could anyone tell me please the location of United’s Scarborough depot? Is the building still there?

Goff

———

04/05/12 – 14:45

The Depot is still there and is now a Car Parking facility rejoicing in the name of the "Palm Court" on Vernon Road near the junction with Falconers Road. It appears to be connected to the up-market Palm Court Hotel. It is clearly shown on Google Earth.

Gordon Green