Ribble Motor Services
1964
Leyland Panther PSUR1/2RT
Marshall DP49F

Odd man out in the Ribble fleet for over ten years was the first production Leyland Panther, which I photographed outside the September 1964 Earls Court Commercial Motor Show.
It is possible that it entered Ribble service for a spell before the show, and early on in its career it ran on the Blackpool to London service, presumably on hire to Standerwick. It operated from Preston garage for most of its life. Withdrawn from service in 9/75, no further owners are known to me.
Photographs of it actually in service are few and far between, the few I have seen are usually on private hire work.

Any recollections or in service photos would be of great interest!

It seems that Panther coaches were not too common.
From ‘Bus Lists On The Web’ and Doug Jack’s ‘Leyland’ book, I see that there were some other PSUR1/2 coaches for the home market, as follows:

15 for East Yorkshire in 1966, with Marshall bus bodies! B49F (why use a coach chassis you may ask!)
2 for East Yorkshire with Metro Cammell C44F bodies in 6/67
4 for East Yorkshire in 1/68 with Marshall DP49F bodies
5 for East Yorkshire in 1968 with Plaxton C44F bodies
1 for Soudley Valley Coaches, Glos in 11/66 with Plaxton C51F body
10 for Seamarks of Westoning, Beds with O/680 engines and Plaxton C51F bodies in 1968 (full air change ?)
6 for Seamarks with Plaxton C51F bodies in 1969
4 for Skills of Nottingham, two in 1969 and two PSUR1B/2R in
1971 all with Plaxton C51F bodies

Photos of any of these would be of interest.
Many more were exported, which was also the case with the bus version, which did well in Australia.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Peter G Greaves

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This unique Panther was the reason that Ribble continued to buy large numbers of Leopards (bus, DP and coach versions) and ultimately why they became a major RE user. It was a disaster. Unreliable, it probably slept in the corner of Frenchwood for much of its life and was condemned to private hire to avoid the (bad) publicity of breakdown on high profile long distance express services. The sad fact was that the Leopard was reliable, the Panther not.
Some, including Preston Corporation and the Aussies, persisted with the Panther and seemed to make it work but most British operators – including Manchester – had similar experience. It put back the case for low(er) floor vehicles for some years – and certainly until the RE was made available on the open market later in the decade.
[I think that you will also find that Maidstone and District had similar numbers and types of Panther as East Yorkshire.]
This must also have been a fairly early Marshall body for both Ribble and BET – who became a major, and repeat, customer of this well built body. [Even stars have Achilles heels though and I gather in grand old age - ie in preservation - some Marshalls need quite a bit of tlc, otherwise their front platform can fall off!]
The East Yorkshire Met-Camms were full coaches of the Topaz design – although I seem to remember that that was the "Bedford" designation and that Leylands had a different name. After closure of Weymann at Addlestone, Metro-Cammell took on the mantle of coaches from the line of the Fanfare and Castillians. They were true coaches but they never realised a balanced design that pleased either generally or, indeed, as a coach.

David Oldfield

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All the early rear-engined single deckers – Roadliner, Panther, Panther Cub and Swift/Merlin – were pretty disastrous, apart from the Bristol RE, which possibly benefited from having the radiator at the front and the engine mounted slightly further forward than the others.
As you say, some operators persevered, and Sunderland reckoned that by the time they got it right the Panther was a really good vehicle. Their experience included a comparison of bodies between MCW’s, which was attached to the chassis throughout, and a much more successful effort by Strachan which featured a separate cantilevered subframe supporting the rear end of the body, allowing the chassis to go its own way.
According to Stewart J Brown’s "Luxury Travel" book, the East Yorkshire MCW coaches were designated Topaz II.

Peter Williamson

Manchester City Transport
1967
Leyland Panther PSUR1/1
MCW B40D

It may seem barely credible now, but in the early 1960s Manchester Corporation was planning a future without double-deckers. They had realised (possibly before anyone else) that the days of the bus conductor were numbered, but at that time only a single-decker could be operated legally without one. As a preliminary step towards total conversion to single deck one-man operation (as it then was), the Corporation carried out strategic experiments in new methods of fare collection, initially using 20 Park Royal-bodied Panther Cubs, a model created by Leyland at Manchester’s request. These were to have been followed by 30 full-grown Panthers with MCW bodies, but in the event only 29 of these were delivered. The missing Panther had been destroyed by fire at the body builders and was not replaced, because by then it was 1967 and the world had changed significantly. Conductorless operation of double-deckers was now imminent, and the plan for an all single-deck fleet was consigned to oblivion.

Although the Panthers rapidly faded from prominence, and were never very well known to enthusiasts, I was personally very fond of them. They were among the first Manchester buses to revert to red interiors after a dozen years of drab and incongruous green, and for me they produced some of the most pure and thrilling Leyland sound effects of all time.

In this April 1968 photo, Panther no. 87 (GND 87E) waits at the Brookdale Park (Newton Heath) terminus of route 7, a rather rambling inter-suburban service on the north side of the city, which in earlier years had taken me to school by Leyland PD2.

Photograph and copy contributed by Peter Williamson

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Thanks for showing the photo above, it is becoming more impossible as time goes by to get bus photos, in service of Manchester corporation transport, mainly in the 1950/1960s periods, ie such buses as Crossley, Leyland Titan TD5s etc. Also for many years I have failed in obtaining copies, or even photocopies of Manchester fleet list/allocation lists for years 1946 to 1959, 1952 to 1953 and 1961, makes me wonder if I will ever get them as I am getting on in years now.
Can anyone help please.

Michael Cregeen

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Answer for Michael Cregeen, regarding Manchester Corporation fleet list.
Try this link and scroll down to item 88, which lists the Manchester tram, trolleybus and bus fleets, the latter divided into (1) 1906-35, (2) 1936-50, (3) 1951-69. Sorry, can’t help with the photographs. Finally, I don’t want to be personal, but Cregeen sounds like a Manx name. I remember a school holiday to the IOM in 1960, and we were transported around the island on a pair of Bedford coaches from Cregeens of Port Erin (an OB and an SB I think).
Any relation?

Stephen Ford

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My thanks to Stephen for his very helpful answer but the type of Manchester fleet lists I am trying to get, or photocopies will do show the bus fleet and depot allocations rather than just fleet. These where published by Manchester Corporation Transport themselves. The years I cannot get are 1946 to 1950, 1952 to 1953 and 1961. Also selnec similar lists from 1971 to 1975.
Thanks in hope.

Michael Cregeen.

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Michael, if you don’t mind black and white, Jaspers has 115 images with prints for sale, buses ranging from 2029 to 4644, at this link.

Peter Williamson

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Something has confused me for many years. When 4490, 4500, 4509 were transferred from Birchfields Road to Northenden, this was odd in itself, but as far as I am aware they where never used by Northenden on all day service, they were used only on part day and works duty. This despite the rest at Birchfields being out all day. Also similar when 4550-4559 went from Birchfields to Northenden, they where used on part day also, and yet the rest of the batch including a few which went to Princes Road where out all day on the Flixton services. Never got to the bottom of this does anyone know anything?

Also after over 30 years of trying I still cannot get my hands on MCTD fleetlist/allocation lists for the years 1946-1950, 1953 and 1961, even photocopies would do. As regarding selnec/gmt ones from 1971 onwards I give up can anyone help please?

I have not got a computer, I use a library internet connection so not always available.

Michael Cregeen

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Michael, I am interested in your question about the transferred Daimlers, but you do not say when the transfers took place. If it was well into the Fleetline era, then it may have been for capacity reasons. A few other facts that may be relevant:
1.  Only about one-third of the Manchester fleet, mainly the newest third, was used on all-day duties, and the exact proportion would be different at different depots.
2.  The five-cylinder Daimlers, which included 4490-4509, couldn’t keep up with the traffic on Princess Road/Parkway, which was Northenden’s main radial thoroughfare.
3.  Industrial relations were handled separately at each depot, and Northenden was known as the most militant.

Peter Williamson

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I have received an email from The Museum of Transport Greater Manchester giving contact details and inviting Michael to get in touch with their Archives department and they feel sure they can help him with his search for MCTD fleet lists. Hopefully Michael will let us know how he goes on.

Peter

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East Yorkshire Motor Services
1966
Leyland Panther PSUR1/2R
Marshall B49F

A pair of Panthers owned by East Yorkshire with Marshall bodywork. If you click on Daimler or Halifax Corporation in the side navigation and scroll down to the Daimler Roadliner you can see the similarity of the Marshall bodywork somehow the Daimler has one more seat. The Panther was available with either a low or high frame chassis these two by the height of the seats have the high frame version.

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Even though this pair of Panthers may be a bit modern for some, you surely must admit that glorious dark blue and primrose livery sets them off a treat.  It’s a shame Peter Shipp, respected owner of EYMS, still can’t be persuaded to return his buses to this stylish scheme, smart as the present cream and dark red may be.

Brendan Smith

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I do so agree. Blue, and cream, are such neglected shades. You can’t beat EYMS indigo and cream.

David Oldfield

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I work for EYMS and totally agree that the blue livery looks much nicer than the red and cream.
If you look at the new Wrightbus which has been repainted into the old livery you will see that it looks great.

Terry Malloy

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Absolutely! The old EYMS indigo and primrose was something very special. Living in York as a kid, I was used to seeing West Yorkshire’s and United’s standard Tilling red, the occasional green and cream of West Riding and Reliance, as well as York Pullman’s very smart magenta, yellow and cream. But  EYMS livery was quite outstanding; just the sight of it made one wish to get on board.  As Terry Malloy says, it was great. How about starting a petition to Mr Shipp?

Roy Burke

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Odd that EYMS bought the PSUR1/2 coach chassis (straight frame) for these buses – rather than the PSUR1/1 low floor bus chassis.

Peter G Greaves

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I must agree, concerning the Indigo & Primrose traditional livery, as this was the livery that I grew up with, taking it for granted, until the advent of NBC red (ugh!), however I do think that the Burgundy & Primrose is as good (if not better..)

Keith Easton

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Burgundy and Primrose is excellent – but why not Indigo? Rather like my post at Rawthenstall PD2 about Sheffield trying green out. There was nothing wrong with the green – it just wasn’t cream and blue.

David Oldfield

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Agreed David, but I’m an Aries, a fire sign, so I prefer shades of red, but indigo isn’t.
Just an afterthought… I wonder what PD1A number 509 (JRH 982) which was painted in the experimental purple and primrose livery, which it received in the early 1950′s, actually looked like. I’ve seen black & white photos, but never any colour ones.

Keith Easton

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Keith, the purple and primrose PD1 looked absolutely awful – it remains in the memory still – an thankfully cut no ice. It would have been bad with any operator but the contrast with the proud and dignified EYMS image was distressing to say the least. The large fleet of EYMS PD1s really were the tops for me, and carried an interesting departure from the usual Roe polished wooden window surrounds, having mid blue gloss paint finish instead – equally pleasing. I was in Bridlington when the changeover from Williamson’s fascinating and well loved vehicles on their two town services gave way to the EYMS PD1s and smartly uniformed staff with metal "EYMS" badges on the lapels – a week of two equally interesting extremes that was, and I was sad and glad at the same time to witness it.

Chris Youhill

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By a weird coincidence this is the same vehicle referred to in my article on Lower Mosley Street Bus Station. It really stood out amid all the red vehicles of NWRCC, Ribble, etc. Made my day!

Neville Mercer

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