Old Bus Photos

Reliance of Stainforth – Leyland Tiger PS1 – FWX 799

Reliance Leyland Tiger PS1 FWX 799
Copyright J. B. Platt

Reliance (R Store Ltd)
1947
Leyland Tiger PS1
Barnaby C35F

This is a great shot of a Tiger owned by Reliance of Stainforth near Doncaster who were taken over by Blue Line (S Morgan Ltd) on April 1st 1949 but carried on operating under their own name. The Reliance livery was an Emerald Green and Dark Blue but eventually they adopted the two shades of Blue as the Blue Line livery. The above vehicle had originally been owned by Felix Motors another Doncaster area independent and was number 25 in their fleet, it joined the Reliance fleet in 1959 and was withdrawn in 1962. The Blue Line – Reliance operation was eventually taken over by South Yorkshire PTE in 1979.

This posting is a little different to normal in that David Oglesby sent me a selection of photos from his fathers album so to do them justice I have included them as an album on the ‘Galleries’ pages the album can be viewed  here.

Photograph contributed by David Oglesby


David Oglesby’s pictures are a real feast. What a fleet of unusual high-quality vehicles! Apart from Lancs United, did any other private operator ever run so many underfloor-engined Guys? Where did the little Dennis Falcon (?) originally come from? And was the bigger Dennis s/d wearing someone else’s radiator?
Incidentally, the heavier Guy underfloors look like UFs or (more probably) LUFs rather than Warriors. The front hubs of UWW 769 point to that light Warrior axle, whereas the other Guys have the heftier version. I don’t think the Warrior was ever offered with a 6HLW engine. I may be wrong, of course.
How long did the photographed vehicles remain in service?
Sorry about all the questions, and thanks again for a wonderful photographic record.

Ian Thompson


My word, what a wonderful selection of very nostalgic pictures from the fascinating Doncaster area – many’s the Saturday a group of we "Leeds Loiners" used to travel to the famous Christ Church terminus to see the varied independent operators.  If Guy Arab underfloor engined vehicles count in Ian’s question Samuel Ledgard ran nine – eight ex Northern General/Picktree coaches and the famous GUY 3 demonstrator service bus.

Chris Youhill


Warriors never had 6 cylinder Gardner engines, Arabs (ie UFs and LUFs) did.

David Oldfield


12/10/12 – 08:25

For many years it was my understanding that the only double-deck bus body constructed by Barnaby was on NDT 997, a Leyland PD2 new as a non-psv to British Ropes of Doncaster, later used as a psv by T.D.Alexander (Greyhound) of Sheffield and Arbroath. It was depicted in the magazine ‘Buses’ (it may have been ‘Buses Illustrated’ in those days) and the caption stated that it was thought to have the only Barnaby double-deck body built.
There is a picture in David Oglesby’s album (see above) showing Reliance HWX 3, a Guy Arab double-deck. The body make is not stated, but there is another picture on the net showing it derelict after withdraw you can view it here.  Here it is stated to have a Barnaby body, and, although it could at first glance be taken to be Park Royal or Roe, the cab area is totally unlike that on bodies from either of those builders. It is also quoted as having a Barnaby body on Peter Gould’s website. Is it certain that the body was by Barnaby? Or that the one on NDT 997 was? Were there any other double-deck bodies built reputedly by them?

I’ve just seen that in the section on Reliance EVY 710 (another ‘Reliance’, that is) David Allen has stated that Bullocks had Barnaby do some double-deck rebodies for them in the 1940s. Any details/pics?

David Call


12/10/12 – 12:46

The splendid Everingham Brothers of Pocklington (taken over by EYMS in 1953) had three Barnaby bodied double deckers. Two were utility Daimler CWs later rebodied, and the third was an AEC Regent bought new in 1949.

Chris Youhill


13/10/12 – 06:38

Thanks for that, Chris, your post inspired me to do some research on Everingham Brothers, and most of my findings were located on the East Yorkshire Motor Services website. Is that the principal source of your own information? There are three pictures of GWF 256, the Regent III, two of it in EYMS colours and one in Everingham’s. The latter looks to be a manufacturer’s photo. There is one shot of rebodied JP 5049 (CWG5) and two of CWF 750 (CWA6). These last three pics were all taken in EYMS days.
Prior to tonight I had little knowledge of the Everingham fleet, other than of the few vehicles which lasted long enough with EYMS to appear in the first edition of British Bus Fleets (Yorkshire Company Operators), which may have been BBF9, I’m not sure now. The ex-Everingham survivors at the time may have been just the two Regal IVs, but I do recall that those two were still operating. One thing of which I was unaware was that EB obtained matching registrations for any vehicles they bought new and had done so for many years – they must have been virtually pioneers in that respect. Also, after the takeover, EYMS simply added 600 to the fleet numbers of any vehicles they were keeping. So EB 53-62 became 653-662, despite the fact that at the time the numbering of new EYMS vehicles had only just passed the 600 mark. What were presumably EB 31/4/5/7-41/3-5 were acquired by EYMS, but either not operated, or not kept long enough to be renumbered. Rebodied CWF 750 became EYMS 664 (you would imagine that it had been EB 50) and JP 5049 became 663, although as it had apparently been acquired secondhand (ex-Wigan Corporation?) there’s no easy way of knowing what the EB fleet number had been.

David Call


13/10/12 – 06:39

Regarding Barnaby, my self-compiled list of bodies built by Barnaby shows (not including early open top deckers for Binningtons Willerby and Lee & Beaulah, Elloughton) 20 double deckers, with Bullock of Featherstone the best customer with 12, then Everingham Bros, Pocklington with 3 and 1 each for Doncaster independents-Felix, Severn, Reliance & Premier and the 1 for British Ropes which was the last decker built by Barnaby.
Most of the above operators, and many more also had Barnaby bodied saloons.
My list shows about 347 PSV bodies built, not all confirmed, as I say this is my own list and is open to correction, but not a bad total for a small Hull business.

Mike Davies


28/10/13 – 13:02

Was the bus working a miners’ service? I didn’t think Edlington was a normal destination for any of the independents.

Geoff Kerr


29/10/13 – 07:08

There is, at least, one Barnaby survivor; a Leyland Tiger PS1/1 with C33F Barnaby bodywork AHL 694, It a working machine, performing on an Agatha Christie sightseeing tours around Torbay, ending at Greenway House. It was new to Bullock & Sons in 1947. Hercule Poirot and Miss Marple are regular passengers! Here’s the link: flickrhivemind.net/

Chris Hebbron


24/11/13 – 14:25

Somewhat belatedly I can confirm that Everingham Bros JP 5049 had fleet number 49 and was new to Everingham. The reason for the Wigan registration is that it was registered by Massey who built the original body.
CWF 750 is confirmed as being Everingham Bros. 50.
Everingham 47 and 48 (Bedford OWB/Roe) were similarly registered by Roe as JUA 647/8.

John Kaye


24/11/13

Wartime coincidences in the Yorkshire bus world – Samuel Ledgard had two superb Daimler CWD6/Duples registered JUB 647/8.

Chris Youhill


26/11/13 – 06:13

There was also a peacetime coincidence in the Yorkshire bus world Chris. When West Yorkshire took delivery of Bristol RELL6Gs SRG30/31 in 1966, they were registered NWT 698/699D. In 1972 three new Ford Escort vans arrived for the service fleet, two of which (4042/4043) were registered NWT 698/699K.

Brendan Smith


08/10/17 – 07:58

Some time ago Mike Davies mentioned that he had compiled a draft list of Barnaby bodies.
Has this ever been published?
If not, I wonder if he would be prepared to share it with me.
I recently came across a photo of Leyland TS8 DWT 425 with Thompson, Sutton in Craven which may have had a Barnaby body – unfortunately I don’t have the copyright holders permission, so I’m unable to post it.
Barnaby body queries come up frequently, and the list would be most useful.

Peter G


10/10/17 – 06:06

I think there are 2 Barnaby bodied psvs in preservation-the PS1 mentioned above and JVY 516 Regal III new to York Pullman.

Roger Burdett


17/10/17 – 06:39

In answer to Ian Thompson’s original question, Harpers of Heath Hayes seemed to standardise on Guy Arab LUFs for coach work. I’m not sure how many there were, but the last four (which were also the last four Arab LUFs built) are preserved.

Peter Williamson


 

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Reliance of York – Daimler CVD6 – EVY 710

Reliance of York - Daimler CVD6 - EVY 710

Reliance of York
1950
Daimler CVD6
Barnaby B35F

Reliance were a very small independent operator, who ran a service from York To Helmsley, along the B1363. The owner had a motor repair garage a few miles out of York on that road.
As far as I am aware, in the 1950’s, Reliance only had one vehicle – a 1950 Daimler half cab in green and cream livery; at some point, this was replaced with an underfloor Daimler in orange and cream. I remember the half cab Daimler being driven by an elderly gentleman – the proprietor – or a younger lady who I understand was his daughter.
Reliance’s terminus in York was Exhibition Square. The term ‘Square’ is slightly misleading, because the square is only a vacant space outside the York City Art Gallery on a short street connecting Museum Street and Bootham. It provided a car parking space for visitors to the art gallery or some York City offices which were situated along the street; the York Theatre Royal is on the other side. However, it did enable buses to turn without reversing, and thus was a practical terminus both for Reliance and for York Pullman Bus Co., whose service to Stamford Bridge also started and ended there. (the Old Bus Photos site has a great picture of a York Pullman AEC Regent V, taken at its terminus in Exhibition Square).
Exhibition Square was an important setting down and picking up point for local buses, (as well as a picking up point for a number of West Yorkshire longer distance services – e.g. Service 80 to Thirsk, 43 to Scarborough, 91 to Whitby), because it is close to York city centre. There was a line of bus stops on both sides of the road; Reliance’s stop was on the side opposite to the position of the York Pullman photo, closest to Bootham Bar.
The route to Helmsley was very rural, with only a few villages along the route. I don’t know the frequency of the service but the traffic volume would not have justified a great frequency. Reliance did, however, cater for a considerable volume of passengers who worked in York, and its early evening departure to Helmsley was always pretty full.
It was unique to see a lady driving a bus in those days. I remember an old West Yorkshire driver, (a chap called ‘Digger’ Ward, who operated the West Yorkshire city tour coach), telling me – whether this is true or not, I don’t know – that the gear change pedal used to work the Daimler pre-selector could occasionally kick back, and he would speculate on how the lady would cope with that without breaking her ankle. Happy days!

Copy contributed by Roy Burke with a photo by Paul Haywood

———

Thanks Roy for a fascinating insight into a company I never really knew. When I took this photo in Helmsley Market Place in 1959 (using a much valued colour exposure from my Dad’s camera), little did I realise that, 50 years later, it would be "exposed" to an audience then undreamed of.
It looks like the driver could be the proprietor?

Paul Haywood

———

“Digger" Ward was absolutely right about the gear change pedal on the pre-selector Daimlers – well, actually he wasn’t quite right enough as the pedal was likely to do far worse than to kick back – it would kick back twice as far as the normal stop often causing injury to hefty men, never mind to ladies. There were two chief causes. Firstly, if there was wear or poor adjustment in the linkages, the device in the gearbox which was intended to tension the appropriate band would fly through a gap between two with the painful result mentioned. Otherwise failure to either accurately select the required gear on the steering column quadrant, or to depress the gear change pedal fully to the floor, would have the same effect. Many drivers learnt the hard way that it was not a clutch pedal and was not to be treated gently and gradually, but fully and decisively.

Chris Youhill

———

Reliance was a bigger undertaking than you suggest. Edward Sheriff was the proprietor and his eldest daughter Joan took her PSV test in the early war years. She became Mrs Thornton on her marriage and was still involved with the business in the 1970s. By this date her younger sister Carol had taken on the business with her husband Richard Shelton.
In the 1950s the service to Helmsley ran every three hours and the fleet numbered nine buses, kept at Sutton on the Forest and at Helmsley.
Pullman buses to Stamford Bridge left from Merchantgate, and the Linton and Easingwold buses from Exhibition Square.
Reliance is still running today in the very capable hands of a new owner.

Anonymous

———

Naturally, I defer to ‘anonymous’s better information on Reliance; I really only came across them by way of seeing their Daimler in Exhibition Square and on car trips out of York. They are also quite right about York Pullman’s services – just age and cloudy memory on my part, I’m afraid. I was simply not thinking about their Linton service.
It also occurs to me that ‘anonymous’ must know more about Reliance than he or she has told. A three hour service between York and Helmsley certainly wouldn’t justify nine vehicles and two depots, so what else did they do?
I wonder if they could possibly be persuaded to tell more?

Roy Burke

———

Reliance still operate two routes from York to Easingwold, often with double deckers. I have a 1938 timetable which shows 7 return journeys from Helmsley to York, Monday to Friday, every two hours, 9 on Saturdays (hourly between Brandsby to York) and 5 on Sundays. There were late departures from York for theatre/cinema patrons. There was also a Friday market working from Nunningtom and Harome to Helmsley. The route was cut back to Brandsby in the 1960’s and later to Crayke. The through route to Helmsley was reinstated a few years ago but was obviously not successful and withdrawn shortly afterwards. The company currently have a green and cream livery and are based at Sutton on the Forest, north of York. In 1964 the company address was at St Peter’s Grove, York. Viewers of the soap “Emmerdale” will have seen a Reliance vehicle making an occasional appearance on the service to “Hotten”

Derek Vause

———

20/05/11 – 22:25

Reliance in the 1950’s was indeed a bigger operator as stated in one of the earlier posts. Apart from the regular service between Easingwold and York which would stop at individual homes/farms, official stops and not, along the York Road (B1363) as well as villages along the way, they provided a regular service for pickups and delivery of school children to Easingwold Grammar/Modern school from the surrounding villages like Sutton, Huby, East Moor, Stillington and further to the West and North. The original location was a petrol station and a substantial repair/depot on the York Road North of York South of Sutton on Forest which housed a number of vehicles, like the half cab style, all of them with manually sliding doors, a smaller type with the pushed forward bonnet, there were two of these as well as a number of newer types. All in the green and cream livery except one of the newer type which had automatic doors, this for some reason was orange and perhaps some cream trim.

John

———

23/07/11 – 08:41

Roy Burke asks why Reliance needed 9 vehicles to operate the service from York to Helmsley. Today services are much more frequent to meet the different travel habits of the population, but in the past this was different. There were key times when everyone wanted to travel, eg to York in the morning and out to the villages at teatime. Reliance regularly had three buses on some departures, one all the way to Helmsley and the others along part of the route. Even when I knew the company well in the 1970s they had two buses full out of York together at teatime. The present service is very high quality and has received national acclaim, a great credit to the owner.

Anonymous

———

16/09/11 – 09:24

Travelled in a Barnaby built coach in Devon at Greenaway. Agatha Christies place. The Driver told us there are only three Barnabys left in service/preservation. Can any one throw any light on this please.?

David Buttle

———

17/09/11 – 08:15

The only extant Barnaby-bodied coach I can think of is JVY 516, a preserved AEC Regal III ex York Pullman.

Peter Williamson

———

17/09/11 – 17:19

The "Classic Buses" website lists five half-cab single-deckers that have carried Barnaby bodies. One was re-bodied in 1962 and is now in Belgium and one is now a recovery vehicle. That leaves three. One is the York Pullman Regal, there is a York Pullman Dennis Lancet but that seems to be in very poor condition. The only other active one is the Bullock and Sons (Wakefield) PS1. That is likely to have been the one seen in Devon.

David Beilby

———

17/09/11 – 17:20

David the coach you refer to is AHL 394 – See it at this link you have to scroll down a fair way.

D Hick

———

20/09/11 – 14:50

There is a shot of AHL 694 taken a few years ago at www.sct61.org.uk in the West Riding pictures There is also a few shots of similar vehicles in service with West Riding.

Chris Hough

———

04/04/12 – 08:19

After reading about the early years of Reliance I must make a comment. We have an old friend who was brought up at Ampleforth and on a Friday and Saturday night if him and his friends went into York for a night out and there were more than enough passengers for the last bus back to Brandsby Ted Sheriff would follow on behind with his car with the extra passengers. I cannot see them doing that now.

Liz Greene

———

13/05/12 – 18:45

As well as the preserved AHL 694, West Riding Auto had a number of similar Barnaby bodied buses as Chris indicated. These were inherited from Bullock and Sons (Featherstone) in 1950. Bullocks had been customers of Barnabys since the 1930s having buses/coaches (including double deckers) rebodied by them in Hull during the 1940s.

David Allen

———

19/05/12 – 07:45

Re Barnaby’s Motor Bodies (Hull) Ltd there is a two-part history of the firm in Vintage Roadscene Vol 7 numbers 27 & 28 which contains an incomplete list of the Commercial non-psv bodies. I did submit a companion article on Barnaby’s Bus and Coach bodies to Messrs I Allan but they were not interested so it was returned to me and it has sat in my filing cabinet ever since. V Roadscene published a readers letter in VR no 29 picking out an error of mine about the final takeover of the firm so perhaps that put an end to it.
No praise for the research I had done from 1983-1989 tracing Barnaby’s history from 1872-1960.
Edward Sheriff started out with Mr Wilfred Mennell at Haxby with a 14 seat Ford T each, Bodied and painted by Barnabys at Hull in ‘Lake & Yellow’ 21st February 1923 the Fords began a York-Haxby service named "The Cosy Car Service". The later "Reliance" York to Helmsley service was the result of Mr Sheriff ‘going it alone’ after 1930.

Ian Gibbs

———

19/05/12 – 09:19

Don’t be put off by nit-pickers. We all make mistakes – I know I do – and I’ve been pulled up occasionally by people on this forum. (Quite rightly). If your research was sound and most of it accurate, perhaps you should revisit it and revise it with corrections. Histories of small but not insignificant companies are fascinating – and not very common.

David Oldfield

———

14/12/12 – 16:20

How many people know that Barnaby built one of only two Centre entrance Utility Double deckers, it was built on a 1933 AEC Regal chassis in 1943 and operated for Felix of Hatfield near Doncaster

Mr Anon


 

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Old Bus Photos from Saturday 25th April 2009 to Friday 24th November 2017