Old Bus Photos

Bournemouth Corporation – Daimler Fleetline – ALJ 341B – 41

Bournemouth Corporation - Daimler Fleetline - ALJ 341B - 41

Bournemouth Corporation - Daimler Fleetline - ALJ 341B - 41
Copyright Diesel Dave

Bournemouth Corporation
1964
Daimler Fleetline CRG6LX
MH Cars H44/33F

Here are two photos I took in November 1964 at The Square in Bournemouth of one of the corporations unique Daimler Fleetlines fitted with bodies by MH Cars of Belfast the only bodies by this manufacturer delivered to the UK mainland they were part of an order for similar buses being built for Belfast Corporation at that time but diverted to Bournemouth who were suffering a vehicle shortage, registered ALJ 340/41 fleet No’s 40/41. Reported by Buses Illustrated magazine as being delivered in Belfast livery but repainted before entering service, does any one know what happened to them after they left Bournemouth?
I may be wrong but I think MH Cars later became Potters who in turn became Alexanders (Belfast).

Photograph and Copy contributed by Diesel Dave


 

ALJ 340B has been preserved, initially at Mallard Road, but the 2012 PSVC listing gives her at Winkleigh.

Pete Davies


11/09/12 – 07:23

An interesting purchase by Bournemouth. I suspect that Alexander had been involved with MH Cars all the way down the line, as this body style is very much like those supplied by Alexander to Newcastle in 1964.

Paul Haywood


12/09/12 – 07:15

It’s not a particularly pretty bus, but it’s not quite as bad as the first Alexander Atlantean body. Sheffield had just one, 369. My favourites are outside the scope of this forum – Sheffield’s Voith/AN68s with peaks on the Alexander body (with flat screens upper and lower).

David Oldfield


18/04/13 – 07:25

It always been rumoured that these two Fleetlines were diverted from an order for Belfast Corporation Transport. I am not sure the source of this but the two Bournemouth chassis numbers bear no relation to the batch of 150 Fleetlines which Belfast ordered even though they were built in between the two batches. The chassis numbers of 40/1 are concurrent with the CRU batch but not any Belfast vehicle. I believe they were built at the same time and may have been to a virtually identical specification to Belfast’s vehicles. I have also seen it reported that they were delivered in Belfast red but have never seen a photograph of either in this scheme and I am sure someone would have taken a photo on such an unusual event.

Bill Headley


24/08/13 – 10:32

I have a photo of the ex Belfast Fleetlines in the Bournemouth body shop in Belfast livery having the destination screen layout altered to Bournemouth’s standard pattern, prior to painting in Bournemouth livery. So these two buses definitely arrived in Belfast livery.

David Chalk


25/08/13 – 06:28

Could you post it, David?

Chris Hebbron


25/08/13 – 06:29

NLJ 272

I visited Winkleigh on the 7th October 2012 where many of the preserved Bournemouth buses are now stored. I’m certain the bus on the right of this photo is Daimler Fleetline ALJ 340B referred to by Pete Davies.

Mac Head


11/10/13 – 17:18

David, I would love to see the "delivery" photo of the MH Cars Fleetline at Bournemouth in Belfast red.
I believe I have finally got to the bottom of the mystery. What became Bournemouth 40/1 (ALJ 340/1B) were nothing to do with a Belfast Corporation order which is why their chassis numbers don’t tally with any Belfast vehicles. The chassis were originally destined to be bodied and delivered as demonstrators to Coras Iompair Eireann in Dublin for a trial. It appears that Leyland objected quoting an unwritten agreement between CIE and Leyland and the proposed programme was abandoned. Bournemouth was struggling for new vehicles because of a strike at Weymanns in which the CRU xxxC batch were caught and these two "complete" vehicles were offered and sold to Bournemouth. The fact that the chassis numbers immediately precede the Bournemouth batch appears to be coincidental. So it would appear that the mystery is finally solved.

Bill Headley


15/10/13 – 07:05

One further question for David – did 40/1 (ALJ 340/1B) arrive on trade plates or did they have Northern Ireland registration numbers on them?

Bill Headley


13/02/14 – 10:46

My brother and I grew up in Bournemouth in the 1970s having moved from Bury (Lancashire). We were overwhelmed by the difference between the Bury Corporation/Selnec Fleet and that of Bournemouth. The Bournemouth Fleetlines and Atlanteans were modern, bright and impeccably clean compared to the Leyland Titans of Bury/Selnec. We lived on Route 17 which seemed to always get the newest vehicles. We were amazed when we first saw the two MH cars bodied buses and grew fond of them because of their quirkiness. We didn’t see them that often though and I think only travelled on them once or twice. Our favourites were the CRU … C batch of open toppers on Route 12 which followed the same route as Route 17 in Alum Chine. We sometimes tried to use them coming home from school but the drivers refused to accept our bus passes on that route!!
Happy Days!!

David R


14/02/14 – 06:47

The brother of David R. My brother and I went to different schools in our teens with very different school bus times. Whereas he started school at just gone 8am, my school at the other side of town started at 9.25am, but finished at 4.30pm. in the first year of secondary school, our school bus route 44 (45 was from Southbourne and 46 from Winton and Charminster. The morning run in 1975 we always received the dual door Leyland Titan PD3/1s, but the evening run was always Daimler Fleetlines or Leyland Atlanteans. However, on a number of occasions we received the MH Cars Fleetlines – which if I remember rightly seated 78 instead of the usual 73? (i am sure someone will know the answer to that). what always amazed me was the MH cars Fleetlines never seemed to operate the 45 or 46 school bus runs – only the 44! The other rarity was during the winter, we would sometimes receive one of the open top fleet – roofed of course! It was always fun to spot ‘Durham’ or ‘Northumberland’ doing the 44 school run! indeed happy days that year, before the new batches of vehicles started to appear, and the PD3/1s disappeared…

Jonathan R


14/02/14 – 13:32

Yes that’s right Jonathan. They put on a special service in the morning at about 07.35 to take the kids who lived in Alum Chine/Westbourne to the Square to catch the normal service route 29/32 to Charminster to be at East Way at 08:15 for school start time at 08:20. School finished at 15:25 and if we were quick to catch the 15:28 from East Way to the Square in time to get the 15:45 route 17 back to Westbourne and Alum Chine. It was quite a rush in the afternoon I can say!!
The whole point of the staggered school start times was so that one batch of buses could do 2 school runs thus reducing the total number of buses needed.

David R


06/04/14 – 18:20

I grew up in Bournemouth during the 1960s/early 1970s, and remember 40/41 when they were new. They were used on route 1 to Christchurch in their early days. Unfortunately, I lived only a mile from Bournemouth School and was envious of those boys who got two (or more) bus rides a day as part of their education! At primary school we did have various bus rides for swimming, etc, but these never involved 40/41 and in fact I do not think I ever rode on them despite being a frequent user of buses for getting around the town.
As David R points out, there was a close relationship between the Corporation and the Education Dept. at The Town Hall – all our local journeys for school purposes were undertaken in Corporation buses.

Grahame Arnold


08/04/14 – 07:47

Ah yes the trips to Stokewood Road Swimming Baths.
IIRC we had the Leyland Leopards for some of those journeys! I also think we used a Roadliner from time to time. The only time we used another "firm" was when we used Shamrock and Rambler for the CCF (Combined Cadet Force) journeys to Portsmouth and elsewhere.

David R


05/07/14 – 17:28

I was born in Boscombe (Hospital) sixty years ago and for the next twenty one years lived in Barrack Road, Christchurch, with the passing Bournemouth Corporation buses, trolley buses and the green Hants & Dorset Bristols. Before the introduction of the rear engined Daimlers I remember seeing a white and blue version in use. Does anyone know if it was a trial unit or does this have any bearing on the ‘Belfast’ debate?

Mike Giles


06/07/14 – 08:20

Bournemouth had the Daimler Fleetline 7000 HP demonstrator on trial for a while – which was in a blue livery as I recall, and had also had the Alexander bodied Leyland Atlantean in the Glasgow orange livery on loan as well (SGD 669). Also tried at about that time was 7552 MX, an AEC Renown demonstrator, which was in a blue and white livery.
In the event, Bournemouth ordered Fleetlines and Atlanteans with bodies by Weymann (who had been body supplier for the postwar trolleys), but with a front end very similar to the Alexander demonstrator.
My understanding at the time was that delivery of the completed vehicles was somewhat protracted – problems at Weymann’s I believe – and hence two MH Cars bodied vehicles were obtained to the Belfast design (and apparently they were vehicles already completed for the Belfast order). They definitely lacked the ‘style’ of the vehicles Bournemouth wanted, but were a ‘stop-gap’ measure by the transport department who wanted new vehicles urgently .

Peter Delaney


11/07/14 – 16:32

The two Bournemouth MH Cars bodied vehicles were not "part of an already completed order for Belfast". They were built as a joint venture between Daimler and MH Cars and MH Coachworks to supply a fully "Irish built bus" which they could offer to CIE. The plan was to give two Fleetline to CIE on extended demonstration. The two chassis 60929 and 60930 were built long after the second batch of Belfast chassis (which had been 60644-60706)and were supplied to MH in CKD form to be built up in the MH factory at Dunmore in Belfast. Knowing that Belfast was successfully running 150 Fleetlines already 60929 and 60930 were built to full Belfast specification and were even painted in Belfast’s red and cream livery.
In the meantime Leyland having got wind of the proposed deal for CIE to have two MH Cars Daimler Fleetlines on extended demonstration, cited an agreement between Leyland and CIE. To meet CIE’s needs and to get vehicles immediately, Leyland cobbled together a group of Atlanteans from Bolton, Glasgow and Liverpool and dispatched them to Dublin.
At the time Daimler were aware that Bournemouth’s forthcoming batch of Fleetlines were bogged down in an industrial dispute at Weymanns and did a deal to sell them these two additional vehicles "on the cheap". This is why these two vehicles arrived in Bournemouth in Belfast colours and to Belfast specifications. The one thing I cannot ascertain is – did they arrive in Bournemouth on Northern Irish number plates or did they arrive on trade plates?
David Chalk said he had photos of them on delivery but hasn’t uploaded them and I am not aware of any other photos of the pair pre-delivery. I hope this clarifies the background to these two vehicles.

Bill Headley


12/07/14 – 06:47

Thank you to Bill for clarifying the background to this – I had missed seeing his earlier post (having answered the comment about blue & white demonstrators) – the MH bodied ones certainly ‘appeared’ to be standard Belfast buses at the time! The sequence of chassis numbers, though, is ‘interesting’ – I seem to recall that order books / chassis registers for Daimlers of that period survive in the Coventry Archives.

Peter Delaney


13/07/14 – 06:59

Just found this page and can add some information re; surviving examples of the 1965 Daimler Fleetlines.
Of the open-top batch (180-189, there are 3 known survivors all of which are driveable but undergoing various form of restoration works.
180 – Based in Midlands, last seen in Bournemouth colours but may appear in a new colour scheme (tbc)
184 – Owned by myself and based in Dorset and currently is having it’s upstairs floor replaced, with some frame repairs. It will be restored to Bournemouth colours. Although in good structural and mechanical condition, it’s suffered from having a lot of modifications from original spec over the years.
187 – Last seen residing in Sussex and will be restored to London Transport colours.
Of the fixed top batch (190-199), the last known survivor was 197 but this hasn’t been seen since BPTA days about the late 1990’s I’d say. I’ve never been able to track this one down and it’s fate is a bit of a mystery.

Nick Jackson


12/04/15 – 07:12

Both 40 and 41 were a diverted to Bournemouth as part of the 150 strong order for Fleetlines being bodied by MH Cars in 1963/64. Bournemouth had a pressing need for new vehicles urgently in the summer of 1964 as the Atlanteans on order were running late. Bournemouth was already in negotiation with Daimler for the 1965 delivery and it was found that two Fleetlines could be diverted very quickly. As said above, they arrived in Belfast colours and were modified and painted before use.
The reason that the two chassis numbers are out of sequence with the remaining Belfast buses is because Daimler issued numbers based on when orders were received and not when the chassis were built. The two received separate chassis numbers as they were ordered separately, but arrived in Belfast colours as they were intended for Belfast and would have had chassis numbers in the Belfast sequence if they had not been diverted to Bournemouth. The tale about CIE being involved is completely without foundation.

James Prince


13/04/15 – 07:41

bmouth 40_41

Here is the photo of one of the two vehicles having its blind apertures altered to Bournemouth’s style at Mallard Road Depot in June 1964. Although already partially repainted, it’s clear that the front panel is still in Belfast Red and the windscreen surrounds are still white.
Copyright unknown

Chris Hebbron


16/04/15 – 06:40

I worked for Bournemouth Corporation as a mechanic from 1978-80 when I left as a result of an injury. I distinctly remember a number of the older Fleetlines (the ones without power steering) being sold to Hong Kong. They were cracking buses and were fitted with Gardiner engines and were very much more reliable than the Leyland Atlanteans which made up the bulk of the fleet.

Terry Hall


ALJ 341B_lr Vehicle reminder shot for this posting


27/09/16 – 13:35

Just to update everyone 40 (ALJ 340B) returned home yesterday to Belfast and is now safely stored away pending further restoration work. This some 50 years after she was built at MH Cars (chassis assembly from Daimler kit) and MH Coachworks (bodybuilding. She is the sole remaining example of an Irish built/assembled Daimler Fleetline and the only MH Coachworks bodied vehicle preserved – there are some school bus Albion Vikings around.

Bill Headley


28/09/16 – 06:28

Great news, Bill!

Pete Davies


28/09/16 – 06:29

This handsome vehicle wears its years lightly and is well worth preserving. The Bournemouth livery and blind aperture layout only enhance its looks. Let’s hope this stays, rather than changing it to the Belfast livery.

Chris Hebbron


30/09/16 – 04:23

Two very fine looking vehicles indeed, enhanced even further by the lovely Bournemouth livery. I imagine there would have been some "head scratching" in order to accommodate the four sets of winding gear for the superb and informative destinations displays – I always wondered at the little "trunk road" coloured ones – "via Old Christchurch Road" etc.

Chris Youhill


04/10/16 – 05:31

Pleased to hear of progress but slightly saddened she wont be based in her home of so many years.
One question: why is the nearside front window slightly larger than the drivers side front window?

David Rawsthorn


05/10/16 – 07:01 4

The driver’s window had to open, unlike the nearside fitting.

Roger Cox


05/10/16 – 09:35

It must have been a very strange sensation for body builders to be carrying out such extensive frontal alteration work on brand new vehicles.

Chris Youhill


06/10/16 – 06:17

Yes I though that may have been the case.
What still puzzles me is that the blind apertures are the wrong way around when compared to normal. On the Weyman and Alexander bodied vehicles the number and via small apertures are nearest the nearside whereas on the MH cars vehicles the small apertures are driver side. Was it simply for ease of altering the original Belfast layout?

David Rawsthorn


06/10/16 – 17:03

I’m sure you’re right there David – the performance must have been complex enough without and additional "perfections." I must say that I always considered these to be two very handsome and appealing vehicles. I haven’t been to Bournemouth for perhaps almost forty years but I do remember being very disappointed from afar (Leeds) when the very unprofessional blue fleetnames were introduced. Last time I was there I was most impressed by the bus stop advertisements showing a spider’s web and the cautionary "Use us or lose us" – a sinister warning of the ever prominent declining passenger figures in the Industry.

Chris Youhill


13/10/16 – 07:12

Yes when the then new "blue flash" livery was applied many of the locals were decidedly unhappy. Then they added the blue skirt which seemed to be a further retrograde step and then they introduced the brown flash livery.
Personally I liked the original yellow with green and mauve band. It worked really well. As I said in an earlier post it seemed to my brother and I that the buses were kept in immaculate condition. We were also very fond of the open toppers the CRU – C batch and then the NFX – P batch. Happy memories.

David Rawsthorn


13/10/16 – 15:27

On the subject of "favourite batches" one group of vehicles bring back especially happy memories for me – the open top Leyland TDs. I once enjoyed a lovely ride on service 12 to Hengistbury Head – the glorious sound effects from the open top deck were pure nostalgia, and I seem to remember in particular one steep climb from the sea front where the mature deep prewar Leyland tones were pure music to my ears.

Chris Youhill


17/10/16 – 07:14

Yet another question about this vehicle.
Why does it have twin front headlights as built, not changed by Bournemouth Corporation Transport when the destination layout was changed, but changed at some future point in time.

David Rawsthorn


18/10/16 – 07:41

On the subject of Bournemouth there is one of the Burlingham bodied Tigers currently for sale on eBay.

Andrew Charles


18/10/16 – 09:21

Yes seen it is for sale. £22K. A lovely vehicle but sadly have neither the wherewithall nor the storage.

David Rawsthorn


18/10/16 – 09:21

Expect it to be sold by now.

Roger Burdett


 

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West Yorkshire – Bristol MW6G – AWU 466B – 1146

West Yorkshire - Bristol MW6G - AWU 466B - 1146 
Copyright Brendan Smith

West Yorkshire Road Car Company
1964
Bristol MW6G
ECW DP41F

Originally numbered SMG38, this vehicle became 1146 in West Yorkshire’s 1971 renumbering programme. It was one of twenty-six MW6G buses delivered to WY in 1963/64 – these being the first new single-decker WY buses for some time. For quite a few years previously, the Company had been able to cascade its mid-life dual-purpose vehicles for stage carriage use – repainting them red and cream in the process. The MW6G buses were originally delivered as B45F, but in 1971, SMG33-38 were reseated with high-backed seats from withdrawn LS dual-purpose vehicles. Unusually, the reseated batch retained bus livery, rather than receiving WY’s then dual-purpose/express livery of cream with a red band. As can be seen, ‘T-type’ destination indicators were fitted at the front, but no displays were fitted at the rear. The vehicles sported full-depth rear windows in their nicely rounded domes. They were quiet and comfortable buses to ride in, whether coach or bus seated, not to mention being very reliable and economical workhorses.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Brendan Smith

———

08/09/12 – 07:45

There are so many West Yorkshire experts who visit this site that one needs to be very careful about one’s facts. Someone may know otherwise, but my recollection is that WY fitted high back seats as a matter of course in their early MWs, designated SUGs. I remember them well on route 43, Leeds to Scarborough, always in standard livery. ‘SUG’ was explained to me in conductors’ training school as ‘Single, Underslung Gardner’. ‘SMG’ – ‘Single, Maximum Capacity Gardner’ – came later, I thought, as the company started to fit bus seats. Originally, SUGs had destination indicators made up of the two lower sections of ECW’s then standard three-part screens. The change to ‘T-type’ screens embraced all stage carriage vehicles, in the mid-1960’s. It’s a pity that the screen in this picture is sloppy; even if the screen didn’t have the right destination, (which could occasionally happen), the driver could, I think, have made sure the route number was displayed clearly.

Roy Burke

———

08/09/12 – 07:46

I agree entirely with Brendan about such vehicles being quiet and comfortable to travel in. I had many rides on those of Midland General which were all of the 6G type and always found them so. I’ve never had any experience of the MW5G, I suspect the ride may have been rather different.
David O remarks elsewhere about the popularity of the Guy Arab UF/LUF for coaching work. I too, never had any experience of these but I’ve always imagined that there couldn’t have been much difference between them and the MW.

Chris Barker

———

09/09/12 – 08:02

West Yorkshire vehicles were regular visitors to Blackpool on the "Joint Services" pool and also to Morecambe – alias British West Bradford – on the X88 service from Leeds. We could and did get anything that was available.
The "class" letters seem to have gone from most of the former Tilling group fleets at about the same time, though the Crosville arrangement was adopted by Potteries.
A pleasant enough view, but the indicator display would be of no use at all to a stranger. Thanks for sharing, Brendan.

Pete Davies

———

09/09/12 – 08:02

West Riding were a somewhat surprising recipient of West Yorkshire 1125 825 BWY which was new to West Yorkshire in 1963 as SMG17 in 1974. It lasted with West Riding until 1975 when it was scrapped.

Chris Hough

———

09/09/12 – 08:04

You are indeed right Roy, that West Yorkshire’s earlier deliveries of MWs (MW5Gs) with bus outline bodywork were fitted with high-backed coach seats. They were classed ‘EUG’ when new, denoting Express Underfloor Gardner, as were the earlier batches of LS5Gs, also with bus shells and coach seats. In later life many were demoted to ‘SUG’ status, for use mainly on stage-carriage work, gaining more red to their livery, but retaining coach seats. They would no doubt have been comfortable machines to ride in on the Leeds to Scarborough run, but many of us did wonder why WY continued to specify 5-pot rather than 6-pot Gardner engines for it’s longer-distance vehicles. It must have taken an age to reach Scarborough, Blackpool or Middlesbrough from the heart of the West Riding. (Could that be the reason for fitting half a dozen of the more powerful MW6G buses with 41 high-backed seats later on?). Some of the SUGs were fitted out for "one man" operation in later life, and received 45 bus seats in the process. They were re-classified SMG at the same time, the ‘M’ as Roy says, denoting Maximum seating capacity, and described as such in Ian Allan’s BBF No9. I too have heard this quoted by West Yorkshire staff, but have heard other staff say that ‘M’ meant the bus was suitable for one Man operation. Both descriptions appeared to be very relevant to the buses concerned, but as a skinny apprentice at the time, I did not wish to provoke an argument with either party, and came to the conclusion that maybe they were both right!

Brendan Smith

———

09/09/12 – 08:03

Where was this picture taken Brendan? Judging by the route number, could it have been York, Harrogate or possibly Keighley? As we’ve seen on other postings, it was not uncommon to have to ride many miles on express services in bus seats, but to have this DP for a local suburban estate run must have been delightful!

Paul Haywood

———

10/09/12 – 06:56

Paul and Brendan – my trusty 1960 fare table book (seriously speaking one of my most treasured possessions) may hold the answer to this query. At least in 1960 there was no service 9A in Harrogate or Keighley, but in York services 9/9A ran between Clifton and Tang Hall Lane. Our lovely meerkat friend from TV would no doubt click his teeth and remark "seeemples."

Chris Youhill

———

10/09/12 – 06:58

There are other mysteries here! I know the camera can lie (or the process can) but that’s not Poppy Red, and I’m not sure about the side band- should be a sort of grey-white and yet seems to match the presumably original window surrounds- which would be self-colour cream, I imagine: yet the grey wheels are there and NBC fleetname. As to where… looks too warm for Keighley: has a look of east Leeds about it

Joe

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10/09/12 – 06:59

I remember seeing the first MWs entering service in Bristol in February 1958. These had AHY registrations and ugly flat backs. The second (DAE) series had the more rounded style and I suppose other early operators of the type had bodywork which went through the same design change.

Geoff Kerr

———

11/09/12 – 06:52

We really need Brendan to tell us where this photo was taken to be sure of the location. In 1960, as Chris says, there was certainly a service 9/9A in York, but it was invariably a double-decker route in those days. I worked it many times as a conductor; a very busy urban route. The picture dates from NBC days – at least 9 or 10 years later – by which time things might have changed, of course. If the picture is indeed in York, things must have changed a lot, since the very idea of OMO on the Clifton/Tang Hall Lane service in the mid-1960’s would have been thought laughable. In Tilling days, York had only one single deck city service, (Leeman Road/Hull Road, route 7), necessitated by a low bridge, operated in my time with L5Gs, (YSGs), later replaced with SUs, (YSMAs). There were then very few OMO routes, and all of them, as you’d expect, were light semi-rural services.

Roy Burke

———

11/09/12 – 06:55

Well Chris- that looked like a York street light, too. Did NBC remove the "York", and have West Yorkshire in East Yorkshire (nearly?) …or is this bus out of area, which explains the blinds?

I should have added that its not West Yorkshire red either which was much redder? This is almost maroon.

Joe

———

11/09/12 – 06:58

Sorry Joe but this is not east Leeds West Yorkshire had no service numbers as low as that in the Leeds area all services in east Leeds were either throughs to York and points east or at a push to places like Barwick Scoles and other dormatory villages which were in the West Riding until 1974 West Yorkshire applied NBC fleet names to standard Tilling red but often painted the cream band on both saloons and deckers.

Chris Hough

———

11/09/12 – 07:01

Apologies for being a little slow in responding to the above comments folks, but I’m making preparations for my ‘jollies’ and have been ‘sidetracked’ away from OB Photos several times! Paul, Chris Y and Joe, sorry to keep you in suspense as a result, but the photo was taken on Woodfield Road, Harrogate. The vehicle was on the newly-introduced 9A Bus Station – Dene Park route, serving a new estate of low-rise flats for older people. From what I can recall, 1146 had been recently transferred from I think, Leeds depot, and presumably had not yet received a blind showing Dene Park, which would go some way in explaining the unhelpful (and slovenly) route display. (There is also what appears to be a maroon Leeds depot allocation disc in front of the fleet number, rather than a green Harrogate one). Joe, your comment on the livery has me puzzled too. I’m not sure whether the processing (AGFA slide) has made the poppy red look like Tilling red, or whether the bus was still wearing Tilling red, with NBC grey wheels, white band and fleetnames applied. Some WY depots did apply white bands and fleetnames to vehicles still in Tilling red, if the paintwork was still sound, pending a full repaint into poppy red at a later date. I smiled at your comment that the view looked too warm for Keighley.

Brendan Smith

———

12/09/12 – 07:11

Thanks for settling this teaser for us Brendan – I had based my wild assumption of the wrong year of course, and on the pretty unlikely possibility of a vehicle transfer or loan to York – and my meerkat informant has received one week’s notice !!

Chris Youhill

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12/09/12 – 07:11

Brendan, as a Keighley postcoder (although living just over the border into North Yorkshire), I must defend the place! Emily Bronte would have had difficulty selling "Wuthering Heights" with the title "Sunny Hills"! When we think of famous people with "sunny dispositions" we automatically think of Denis Healey, Eric Pickles, and Alastair Campbell who were all born in Keighley! There’s nothing wrong with good old fashioned gloom and misery. Mark my words, no good will come from sunshine, it only attracts the wasps!

Paul Haywood

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13/09/12 – 06:59

Thanks for settling the mystery, Brendan. I have several views of buses still in Tilling green or red but with NBC style fleetname. A Southern Vectis bus in Southampton (on loan to Hants & Dorset and with the latter’s fleet number – don’t fret, boys, I’ll submit it for consideration in a week or two!) has Tilling green, NBC fleetname and the white stripe.

Pete Davies


 

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Black and White – AEC Reliance – 8222 AD – 222

Black and White - AEC Reliance - 8222 AD - 222
Copyright Bob Gell

Black and White Motorways
1961
AEC Reliance 2MU3RV
Duple C37C

Seen at their base in Cheltenham Coach Station on Sunday 20 August 1967 on Associated Motorways services are two members of the Black and White Motorways fleet. 182 (PAD 182) is a Willowbrook bodied Guy Arab LUF, new in 1955 and 222 (8222 AD) is a Duple bodied AEC Reliance new in 1961. Both are 37 seaters, with a centre entrance, which was standard for Black and White at the time, apart from a batch of 5 Roe Dalesman bodied Reliances new in 1959, which had 41 seats and a front entrance. The somewhat flamboyant Duple body on 222 contrasts with the restrained, classic elegance of the ECW bodied Bristol MW in Royal Blue livery alongside, also on Associated Motorways work.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Bob Gell

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05/09/12 – 08:45

Another gem! I never experienced Cheltenham Coach Station, but I had two years of coach travel between Birmingham and Lancaster in the 1966/68 era. A veritable rainbow on steroids.

Pete Davies

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05/09/12 – 08:46

What a great pic. Things aint what they used to be. Thanks for sharing that.

Les Dickinson

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06/09/12 – 06:53

As an AEC (and Bristol) man, it’s amazing how many Guy Arab UF/LUF coaches have pitched up on this forum in recent months. I never came across one personally, but it is significant how many of you hold them in high regard and great affection.

David Oldfield

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07/09/12 – 07:17

On that subject, David, in 1955 Northern General took delivery of 16 Weymann Fanfare’s, 6 on AEC chassis went to Wakefield’s, the other 10 for Northern were on Guy Arab UF/LUF and had the almost indestructible Gardner 6HLW. They had quite long lives for coaches, they were re-trimmed an re-seated by Plaxton’s in 1964 and were still around in 1968. Sadly I don’t think any survived into preservation, but to my mind the Fanfare was timeless classic that wouldn’t look out of place now

Ronnie Hoye

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07/09/12 – 07:19

I worked in and out of Cheltenham from Eastbourne in the summer during the early 70’s when working for Southdown arriving to connect with the 16:00 hrs mass departure and leaving the next day with the 14:00 hrs departure these mass departures were a sight to behold looking chaotic but in reality very well organised any late arrivals contacting the control office to advise of any onward connections so that only those services needing to be held back were.
I remember the Reliance/Duple coaches by that time relegated to mainly duplicate journeys and were not very popular and known to all Black & White drivers as "Bubblecars" usually given to first season drivers who were then told to follow the service car he then found the service driver with the well known request "don’t lose me as I’ve never done this run before". I never lost one and always felt sorry for them as I felt it was not a good way to learn any route especially one like ours which took around 7 hours. One of the station inspectors told me they could get around 140 coaches in the yard, to me it seemed they proved it on many summer Saturdays and as this was in the very early days of National white livery with many vehicles still in company colours it was a truly magnificent sight also of course there were many private company vehicles on relief journeys which added to the spectacle. Oh happy days.

Diesel Dave

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08/09/12 – 07:31

I agree about the Weymann Fanfare, Ronnie.

David Oldfield

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10/09/12 – 07:30

Ronnie and David, the Northern General Guy Arab LUFs with Weymann Fanfare bodies were my favourite coaches of all time – see half way down this page http://sct61.org.uk

Peter Williamson

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11/09/12 – 06:39

As you say on the other site, Peter, the Guy Weymann’s were extensively used on the Newcastle – Liverpool service and that was pre motorway era, so regardless of the route you took it involved a lot of up’s and downs on single carriageway roads, but it says a lot about the vehicles that they lasted as long as they did, reliability was never an issue but at times seating capacity was

Ronnie Hoye


27/05/14 – 14:00

I Remember it well driving my new 53 seater Ford with Plaxton body on dupe from Leicester to Cheltenham and ending up in Devon on service, Anyone out there remember the old Caff in Bridgewater open all night.

I Williams
Ex N & S Travel


 

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Old Bus Photos from Saturday 25th April 2009 to Friday 2nd December 2016