Old Bus Photos

Northern General – AEC Reliance – EFT 551 – 2154

Northern General - AEC Reliance - EFT 551 - 2154
Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

The Northern General Transport Company
1961
AEC Reliance 2MU3RV
Burlingham Seagull 70 C41F

On the subject of bus liveries that has been discussed on this site recently. Some operators seemed to adopt a one style fits all livery that hardly varied from one type of vehicle to another, and made little or no allowance for differences in body style or trim. This example from the NGT group is a rather sad looking AEC Burlingham Seagull that was once a rather attractive Wakefield’s coach number 251 based at Percy Main, the depot I worked at. Unfortunately I don’t have a picture of one of these in coach livery, but in common with most other Northern group coaches ‘except Sunderland & District’ it would have been predominantly cream with maroon window surrounds and skirt, I cant remember if the roof was cream or maroon, but they did look rather splendid. This one seems to have had some other changes made, the centre roof window above the windscreen has been removed or painted out, and the seats appear to have been changed as the originals would have been red and didn’t have grab rails fitted. Sunderland & District had some Leyland Tiger Cub’s with identical bodies and they ended up in bog standard stage carriage livery.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye

A full list of Reliance codes can be seen here.


30/10/11 – 15:02

Most regulars know that I am both an AEC and a Burlingham man. Whilst it is self evident and accepted that the original Seagull was a classic, unlike many others, I quite like the 60/70 models – even if they were not quite up to scratch with the original.
I never remember one of these in Manchester in the 70s but I only ever remember coaches in this livery, not the reversed cream version. Was the Tyne – Mersey service treated as a bus service for these purposes? This would still qualify as a quality livery by today’s standards.
One fascinating piece of trivia is that individual NGT group fleets were either AEC, Leyland or Guy fleets. So no standard corporate ordering there then.

David Oldfield


02/11/11 – 06:46

David, you are not on your own. Whilst, undeniably the Burlingham Seagull was the ‘Creme de la Creme’ I also had a soft spot for the 60/70 series.
My local operator Baddeley Bros. of Holmfirth had two original Seagulls on Royal Tiger chassis KWU 844 (1951) and LWY 653 (1953). They then had Bedford SBG/Burlingham RWY 277 in 1956, again still quite attractive. Then came four SB3′s in 1959 with the hugely curved windscreen Burlingham body (probably a coach version of the PA series Vauxhall Velox/Cresta cars of the period) Then in 1961 came Bedford SB1 2496 WY with the Burlingham 61 body. This body, I thought, suited the front engine Bedford better than the underfloor AEC/Leyland chassis. This coach was followed in 1962 by a Duple Gannet bodied SB5. Things were starting to slide Burlingham wise!
All these coaches served me as school buses between 1965/70 so perhaps I’m looking through rose tinted glasses.
I thought the 1959 petrol engined SB’s mundane, 2496 WY and it’s Gannet bodied sister 433 BWU, so-so but when we got the Royal Tigers with the classic Seagull body which was not that often, despite there age, that was the ‘Creme de la Creme’!

Eric


02/11/11 – 09:26

Couldn’t agree with you more, Eric. They were a superb coachbuilder but, towards the end, had more than their fare share of dogs – especially regarding design. Apart from the plastic roofs on Seagull 60s, I’m not aware of any considerable drop in quality and the Duple Continental and Firefly/Dragonfly were Burlinghams in everything but name and seemed to have a good reputation.
I’m a Sheffielder, who had relatives in the Barnsley and Huddersfield areas, and always thought Baddeley Brothers looked quite classy. I was only really aware of them as a student in the early 70s, passing through on the X19. By that time, the principal vehicles were Bedford YRQ/Plaxton Panorama Elite Express grant vehicles. They still looked smart, though.

David Oldfield


02/11/11 – 15:04

David, Your mention of plastic roofs on the 60′s has jogged my memory. I remember the cloth trim on the interior ceiling of both 2496 WY and 433 BWU being quite badly stained by the ingress of water when they would probably be only about five years old. Baddeley’s also had a Duple Alpine Continental on a Leopard chassis 474 EWW. Of course the other sizeable coach operator in the Huddersfield area was Hanson’s who had two batches of Firefly’s on Ford chassis in 1963/4

Eric


03/11/11 – 06:27

Strange, isn’t it, how many operators had heavy (or medium) weight service buses and lightweight coaches? Hanson and Booth and Fisher (recently posted) had AECs and Ford coaches, York Pullman was AEC/Bedford, the Doncaster indis went down a similar road and this was replicated around the country. Firms like Baddeley Bros were less common, but by no means unique, with their mix of heavy and light weight coaches.

David Oldfield


03/11/11 – 17:46

Hanson’s was rather a complex fleet in the fifties. The coaches were a mix of Regal III and Reliances and Bedfords and the buses were AEC with a smattering of Albions. Between 1956 and 1966 most of the AEC’s went on to be rebuilt as buses. The Bedfords were kept anything from 2 to about 5 years and from about 1959 all new coaches were Fords right to the demise of the Hanson business in 1974. This change of allegiance is thought to have being something to do with Hanson Haulage buying large numbers of Ford lorries.
Baddeley’s although being a smaller operator chose both Leyland and Bedford for new coaches in the fifties, many with Burlingham bodies, this policy continuing into the sixties. They also purchased quite a few secondhand coaches, including 2 that had been operated at one time or another with Hansons. Another feature of Baddeley’s was the hiring in for the summer season of coaches from local dealer Hughes and the Baddeley’s fleet name and number being applied. Several of these were in Wallace Arnold cream as the had be leased by WA for one or two seasons from Hughes when new. This led to Baddeley’s having quite an interesting and varied fleet. Wish I had owned a camera in those days.

Eric


04/11/11 – 07:04

I agree with you David. The last of what some would call ‘proper coaches’ to carry the Wakefields name were two Plaxton Embassy Bedfords ‘SB8′s I think’. The next Wakefields after that were Alexander ‘Y’ type DP’s on Leyland Leopard chassis, but I think that would have been a decision based on economics. Percy Main depot didn’t have any long distance or express routes, so the coach fleet was only used for private hires and excursions and most were de-Licensed at the end of Blackpool Illuminations, so apart from three double deckers the Wakefields name virtually disappeared from October until about Easter, where as the DP’s were used all year round and went onto stage carriage work in winter months. If memory serves, for the first couple of years some of them had the seats changed to ordinary bus type during the winter.

Ronnie Hoye


13/11/12 – 08:40

I remember going to the Lake District in the early 60s on one of these and it did indeed have the reversed coach livery the above is a later incarnation.

Malcolm Swaddle


18/04/13 – 17:40

EFT 550

Not in colour I’m afraid, but I’ve found this photo of one of EFT 551′s sisters in its original Wakefield’s livery. As I’ve said, Percy Main had four of these, EFT 550/3 – 250/3; and they remained in service as coaches until about 1970, they were then transferred to Northern and downgraded to D/P’s

Ronnie Hoye


 

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Boddy’s Coaches – AEC Reliance – VBT 191

Boddy's Coaches - AEC Reliance - VBT 191
Copyright K Easton

Boddy’s Coaches (Bridlington)
1958
AEC Reliance MU3RV
Yeates C41F

In 1958, Boddy’s Motors (John Boddy & Son) purchased a trio of AEC Reliances type MU3RV, which were bodied by Yeates with their Europa bodywork. There was seating for 41 passengers and was fitted with front entrance and exit doors. The first two VBT 191/2, were to service in May, 1958, whilst the third VBT 893 entered service the following month. I am unaware what happened to these three upon withdrawal, but one, VBT 191, survived into preservation. It had chassis number 823 and Yeates body number 658. The photograph shows this vehicle at the Harrogate end of the Trans-Pennine Rally, which commenced in Manchester. It is seen on the Stray, Harrogate on Sunday August, 1985.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Keith Easton

A full list of Reliance codes can be seen here.

———

19/06/11 – 11:41

191 was sold to Yeates at there co Durham branch supposedly for preservation 192 was stripped of all useful mechanical and body trim and the shell went to a local haulage contractor as a store shed at a yard at the side of the railway at flambro until it was broken up when a new owner took over. 893 was sold earlier than the other two I believe to a Lancs operator. 191 appeared later with Mathers Motors in the Scottish Borders, it then went to Skegness and I understand it is now with Fowlers in Lincs. They were very pleasant coaches to drive and the exhaust brakes made a loud noise when coming to a stop every one turned round to see what was coming

Ken Wragg

———

19/06/11 – 20:52

Kens notes reminded me that I managed to get a photo of VBT 192 at Askham Caravan Transport in Flamborough on 14/9/82 a sad end to a fine coach.

VBT192

YXD 12 was another sad end this fine vehicle ended up as a club house at a Hunmanby race track seen in 26/10/87 see below

YXD12

YXD12 aa

Mike Davies

———

20/06/11 – 15:03

Mike, was YXD 12 a Duple Britannia ?? I think it looks like one – Wallace Arnold had just three of those, 4324/5/6 UA and I thought they were beautiful. On the East Yorkshire theme, I once took 4324 empty to Hull, had B & B in the City Centre, and then took a full load to Southend Airport next day (one of my favourite runs) to hop across to the Continent for their holidays in one of the Channel Airways Dakotas. Wallace Arnold had a huge programme based on Southend Airport in those adventurous days in the early 1960s.

Chris Youhill

———

21/06/11 – 07:41

YXD 12 was an AEC with duple Britannia body. with 40 seats only 4 across the back seat however it was possible to get 5 on the back and very often 1 on the courier seat this was a very nice coach to drive with air brakes

Ken Wragg

———

21/06/11 – 07:43

Yes, Chris, it’s the final manifestation of the Britannia before the Continental – and subsequently the Commander – took over as the AEC and Leyland body by Duple. I agree with you about its looks.

David Oldfield

———

21/06/11 – 07:47

Re VBT 191..Tonight I did a DVLA check and found that it is not listed on their records so at best is not currently taxed unless it has lost it’s original registration number. I then researched the website of Fowlers Travel and found that they have a complete list of every coach they have had since they started with details of when bought, date of disposal and to whom it was sold or scrapped. Sadly, the AEC is not listed as far as I can see.
You can view the list here..
It will be a real shame if the coach fell into poor hands after being preserved.

Richard Leaman

———

21/06/11 – 16:03

Yes Chris YXD 12 was Duple Britannia, interestingly Hoods of Wold Newton, which is not to far from Bridlington had YXD 14 I don’t remember seeing it, and have not got a photo.

RN 8672_1_lr

RN 8672_2_lr
Another ex Boddys vehicle which I managed to photograph was RN 8672 in use as a store shed at Octon Lodge Farm, Octon. this has since gone on to one of the Ribble preservation groups I think.

Mike Davies

———

22/06/11 – 07:10

VBT 191 is alive and well and appeared at this year’s UK Coach Rally at Peterborough.

MikeB

———

22/06/11 – 07:13

If you Google the registration VBT 191, it comes up with a very nice photo on Flickr of VBT 191 at the UK Coach Rally in April of this year.
The Fowlers listing given by Richard seems to omit vehicles they have acquired for preservation, as they also have 966 RVO, a Yeates bodied VAL new to Barton Transport.

Bob Gell

———

22/06/11 – 13:17

Thank you Mike and Bob. Good news indeed but puzzling that it is not found on the DVLA records which is why I feared it might be lost. Maybe there has been a change in it’s details recently and been temporarily off record as happened to a car I sold last year.

Richard Leaman

———

26/06/11 – 08:09

VBT 191 is on the DVLA website-classed as a Leyland AEC
VBT 893 left the fleet as early as July 1966, and passed to an operator called Davies of Halewood.

Further to Keith Eastons earlier post-I have a fleet list for Annfield in JPEG format-probably (certainly!) incomplete.

David Hick

———

26/06/11 – 11:27

Such a fleet list, complete or otherwise, would be most interesting to we older "Bridophiles" David if there is any possibility please.

Chris Youhill

———

27/06/11 – 07:09

Davies of Halewood, eh? The last ever delivery of a RELH to an independent operator was to them. [The previous such - and the first - was to Flights.]

David Oldfield

———

29/06/11 – 14:37

Hello just want say I have a great interest in the Willlamsons coaches and am trying to find out as much info as possible as my family are related to them; my nana was a Williamson her Grandad was Reuben Williamson . She would recall living in Brid among all the coaches . she told us they owned horse drawn coaches before the motorised vehicles in Havelock Crescent . She moved away from Brid in her late teens and sadly passed away 2 weeks ago aged 96. This why it is of great interest to me…

Anon

———

01/07/11 – 05:34

RWF 785 , another former Boddy coach, can be found here: http://www.flickr.com/ 

David Hick

———

01/07/11 – 09:25

Hello Anon, and firstly we’re very sorry to hear of your Grandma’s passing away. I’m not good on "family trees", but would the lady’s father possibly have been Tim Williamson ??, as he was the son of Reuben and ran the business till the sale to EYMS. My Grandma and my Aunt knew Tim in the old days – they ran a very small B & B in St. Stephen Road.

Chris Youhill

———

08/10/11 – 06:18

…all this talk of Body’s etc. sent me to my ticket collection of which I have
‘BODDY’S MOTOR TOURS’ at 101 Promenade and 10 Hilderthorpe Road BRIDLINGTON.
- also (to make Mr. Youhill dribble are scans I have done (Front and Back) scans of his ‘beloved’ WILLIMSON’S punch tickets showing ‘Havelock Crescent’ on reverse self message.

‘Coming Soon’ as they say to the Old Bus Tickets web site.

Peter Abel

———

08/10/11 – 17:23

Now then Peter A, a very good job I had a bib to hand as I’m already dribbling in anticipation !!

Chris Youhill

———

10/10/11 – 06:34

Ain’t we all! Cant wait to see the Boddy’s ticket

Keith Easton

———

12/01/12 – 06:45

Peelings of Tittleshall had YXD 10 a very similar Reliance.

Jonathan Joplin


 

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PMT – AEC Reliance – 882 REH – SN882

PMT - AEC Reliance - 882 REH - SN882
Copyright Michael Crofts

Potteries Motor Traction 
1961
AEC Reliance
Alexander B45F

The Reliance in the snow above was being driven by myself on route 64 Newcastle under Lyme to Market Drayton on the A53 road just south of Loggerheads, traffic in front was getting stuck on a hill ahead of us called Hennel Brooke. The AEC’s were delivered in 1961 there was 25 of them all 45 seaters with Alexander bodywork built to BET federation specification, they were all withdrawn in 1976. They were the first OMO buses to operate with PMT, and yes we did eventually reach our destination.
They were a very pleasant bus to drive having a top speed of about 52 mph with a 5 speed gearbox powered by the AEC 470 engine. Bus number SN886 of this batch was "Tuned" to operate a service along the M6 motorway to Stafford from Newcastle under Lyme. It was not that much faster than the rest but it did have a good exhaust sound, just like the older Reliances with a crackling exhaust and a whistle when going downhill with your foot off the gas.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Michael Crofts

———

21/02/11 – 06:28

Newcastle was the first depot to have OMO single deckers and SN882 was one of the original conversions for the highly rural Newcastle Area services. It looks to have a smaller PMT logo on the front panel dating the photo post 1968 but has not yet had the destination display altered to a final destination with triple route number below. SN882 was one of a batch of 25 which were the first Alexander bodies for PMT leading to further orders for the second and third batch of Fleetlines followed by batches of Y type dual purpose bodies on both 8U2R (coil spring) and 6U2R (leaf spring) Reliance 691s. The Reliance 470s like SN882 had continual cylinder head gasket problems which led to instant cold heaters and demisters due to air locking and also had reliability issues with the hydraulically operated clutch mechanisms. The Alexander bodied 470s always seemed a bit flimsy to me compared with the earlier Weymann bodied examples.

Ian Wild


 

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