Old Bus Photos

Thomas Burrows & Sons – AEC Regent V – PWY 943 – 89

T Burrows & Son - AEC Regent V - PWY 943 - 89
Copyright Andrew Critchlow

Thomas Burrows & Sons
1956
AEC Regent V MD3RV 
Roe L27/26RD

Thought this (the only pic I ever took of a Burrows bus) might be of interest. Fleet No.89 registration PWY 943 an AEC Regent V with Roe L27/26RD body, new in 1956 and Burrows’ last new decker. The picture was taken on the occasion of a PSV Circle tour from Manchester in 1965. Our transport, a North Western Bristol K5G can be seen at the far left, cooling down after its climb over the Pennines. We had to form a bucket chain at one point to extinguish the smouldering cab floorboards but did manage to overtake a Bedford coach as well!
Operators visited on this tour included Phillipson’s of Goldthorpe (lots of Royal Tigers), Mexborough and Swinton and Rotherham Corporation.
Happy Days!

Photograph and Copy contributed by Andrew Critchlow

A full list of Regent V codes can be seen here.

———

02/10/11 – 10:26

Was your K5G the North Western one on the Halifax Parade?

Joe

———

04/10/11 – 14:22

Yes Joe it was the same bus as the Halifax Parade, fleet no.432

Andrew Critchlow

———

04/10/11 – 20:53

Whilst I remember the North Western K5G’s in service my memories of riding them date from the preservation era. Boy were they rough riders! Sitting on top deck at the front your nether regions got every vibration from the engine and gearbox. It’s a tribute to those Willowbrook bodies that they lasted so well under those conditions. I bet the original bodies didn’t need much removing – they probably self-destructed.
Looking at the ‘Halifax Parade’ link was very enjoyable. I think I was there. The shots of the service buses in the background reminded me what a superb livery Halifax had. It even managed to make the ‘Orion’ body design look passably attractive!
Happy days indeed!

Philip Halstead

———

06/08/12 – 07:25

In 1967 this bus was with Richards Bros, Moylegrove.

Les Dickinson


 

Quick links to the  -  Comments Page  -  Contact Page  -  Home Page

 


 

Bradford Corporation – AEC Regent V – 6208 KW – 208

Bradford Corporation - AEC Regent V - 6208 KW - 208
Copyright Roger Cox

Bradford Corporation
1964
AEC Regent V 2D3RA
Metro Cammell H40/30F

A while ago there was a thread re Bradfords Regent Vs so I thought I would contribute one of my shots it is of 208 a 2D3RA type with clutch and four speed synchromesh gearbox, and MCW H40/30F bodywork. When I worked in the Traffic Office for Halifax Passenger Transport in the mid 1960s, I used to ride from time to time on Bradford buses between Queensbury and the city centre. The howl of the conventional transmission Regent V in the intermediate gears on hills was part of the soundtrack of life in that part of West Yorkshire in those days – Hebble and Halifax also had buses of this type. In theory, the blue/cream livery should have been quite attractive, but in practice Bradford’s buses always had a slightly disappointing appearance to me. It was often said back then that blue paint did not wear as well as red or green, and this seemed to be borne out by the matt finish that Bradford’s buses seemed to acquire very quickly. Perhaps the Corporation’s bus washing equipment had a deleterious effect upon the paintwork.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

A full list of Regent V codes can be seen here.


29/09/11 – 09:02

I was once with a company whose corporate colour was light blue. It was not a very stable colour & depended too for its appearance very much on what colour was underneath it.

Joe


30/09/11 – 12:23

Bradford`s blue was always subject to quick fading, and the problem seemed to worsen when the Humpidge livery eliminated cream bands, grey roofs, and yellow lining. There was no finer sight than a newly repainted Bradford bus, but, alas, after a week, the same old look of faded gentility would appear!
Perhaps BCPT should have resisted the temptation of using the Southend blue which so inspired them in 1942 when 4 trolleybuses from that town appeared on loan. The original dark blue was quite sombre, but had a certain elegance which seemed to emphasise the no nonsense attitude of a busy industrial city.
I cannot imagine what the MkVs would have looked like though!

John Whitaker


30/09/11 – 15:22

I think the overall effect would be akin to the Lytham & St Annes blue or perhaps Pontypridd UDC both of these used a dark blue as their main colour.

Chris Hough


30/09/11 – 16:28

Hi Chris.
No, I knew the Lytham fleet well, Bradford`s pre war blue was VERY dark, almost like EYMS. Lytham blue was more a royal blue, whereas Bradford’s was classed as ultramarine. Check it out on preserved tram 104.

John Whitaker


Bd Model

Just so happen to have a model AEC Regal in Bradfords old Livery.

Peter


30/09/11 – 21:59

To change the subject from paint to move to that transmission howl. Being brought up in Rochdale in the 1950′s I was obviously a great admirer of AEC Regent V’s. In the early 1960′s I made a journey to Huddersfield to look at the trolleys and after taking the Hebble 28 to Halifax over Blackstone Edge I changed to a 43 for Huddersfield. It was a Halifax LJX Regent V. I was absolutely distraught at the howling and whining sounds made by the bus especially on the long climb up to Ainley Top from Elland. Our Regent V’s in Rochdale never made sounds like that. Of course I found out later as my knowledge of bus engineering expanded that the Rochdale vehicles had fluid transmission, either pre-selectors (NDK batch) or Monocontrol on the later ODK, RDK and TDK registered vehicles. The NDK batch also had Gardner 6LW engines. I was never such a fan of the more common synchromesh Regent V’s after that experience.

Philip Halstead


12/11/11 – 06:11

Ah! The Bradford Regent Vs. They appeared to fall into two distinct camps – people either loved them or loathed them, and I make no apologies for nailing my colours to the loved ‘em mast every time! As a youngster I used to try and guess which batch an approaching Regent V was from, before the number plate became visible. If memory serves correctly, taking the first batch (the PKYs) as a yardstick, these had fixed glazing in the front upper deck windows with a ventilator in the roof dome above them. The UKYs were broadly similar but whereas the PKYs had a straight lower front edge to the front wings, the UKYs (and subsequent batches) had a somewhat racier rounded lower front edge to them. Then came the YAKs, similar to the UKYs, but with opening front ventilators in the front upper deck windows and no ventilator in the front dome. The most noticeable change came with the YKWs, as they were the first to sport St Helen’s-style destination displays showing ultimate, via and route number information boldly and clearly (a classic display if ever there was one). They also had single rather than two-piece windscreens, fuller roof domes and a subtly deeper area of cream above the lower deck windows and cab/canopy. They lacked front dome ventilators but retained the opening vents in the front upper deck windows. Then came the 2xxx KW batch, seemingly identical to the YKWs, but the eagle-eyed would spot that the roof dome ventilator was back! The final batch – the 6xxx KWs – were the ones that I had to admit defeat on as they looked every inch the same as the 2xxx’s. However, once aboard, you immediately knew which was which as the 6xxx buses had light blue internal window surrounds rather than the cream used hitherto. In later years the Transport Department converted the PKYs, UKYs and YAKs to the St Helen’s-style destination displays, but they were still readily identifiable as they retained the original smaller route number blinds and tracks. Later they also added roof dome ventilators to the YKWs too, bringing them into line with the two batches of KWs. Fond memories of buses with undeniable character.

Brendan Smith


06/07/13 – 07:00

Has has been said many times the Bradford livery was superb when ex works. I can remember the FKY batch of Regent IIIs were always immaculate when returned from two year recertification. FKY 7, which was probably the last to gain a five year certificate, could always be easily identified at a distance by the creamy brown window pans caused by rust coming through, and the faded blue livery, until its later recertification, which transformed it from the ugly duckling to a magnificent machine in line with its sisters.

David Hudson


06/07/13 – 09:18

I have always been quite distressed by the vicious condemnation from many quarters of the Bradford Mark Vs. The exaggerated accounts of rough and violent rides are wicked to hear, and any such discomfort must surely have arisen largely from careless or deliberate bad driving. I drove many Mark Vs in my time, both two pedal and live gearbox, and never had any trouble with them. I was even allowed, for a reason I can’t remember, to drive a full load of folks around the Sandtoft circuit in preserved M & D VKR 37 – at the time I’d obviously never seen that vehicle previously, nor had I driven any Mark V for many years, but it gave no problems at all. Possibly the mountainous roads in Bradford encouraged "forceful" driving but, if so, there’s no excuse for this. Certainly the superb pure howling of the Mark V manual transmission in the first three ratios was glorious to hear, as indeed was the "petrol engine" smooth quietness in top !! I’ll never forget the civilised magic of the Ledgard Roe sextet 1949 – 1954 U when they appeared in September 1957. Incredibly, despite the use of the green demonstrator 88 CMV, they were not expected by the staff in general – surely one of the best kept secrets ever, especially within a relatively small operator.

Chris Youhill


07/07/13 – 07:36

Well said, Chris. Despite having the (slightly) suspect wet-liner AV590, Sheffield’s 2D3RA and 2D2RA Regent Vs gave full value and service lives in the mountains of Sheffield and the Peak District. [.....and the "Pre-war Howl" of the 2D3RA was part of their (musical) attraction.]

David Oldfield


6208 KW_lr Vehicle reminder shot for this posting


14/07/13 – 07:50

Chris, I heartily endorse your defence of the much maligned Bradford AEC Regent Vs. Having had the pleasure of riding on many of the ‘YKWs’ and ‘KWs’ over the years, I feel much of the ‘problem’ as you rightly say was down to very poor driving. Whether they had lower ratio rear axles to cope better with Bradford’s many hills I do not know, but this would give improved acceleration on the flat, such as the services along Manningham Lane to Saltaire, Bingley and Crossflatts. Also if the engines were fully rated, this combination would no doubt encourage ‘spirited’ performances from BCT’s small band of would-be rally drivers. Exhaust brakes were also fitted to the buses, giving increased deceleration on braking if needed, so in the hands of said rally drivers – well you can imagine passenger comments! (Not to mention those of the poor conductor saddled for a full shift).
Having also ridden on East Yorkshire Bridgemasters and Renowns, which shared many mechanical components with the Regent Vs, these did not appear to have the same afflictions. They generally seemed to be treated with much more respect by their drivers, and the ride was all the better for it. Another benefit of a more relaxed driving style with the AECs was that passengers were treated to the wonderful musical tones of the gearbox, as mentioned by Chris Y and David O, for that much longer!

Brendan Smith


14/07/13 – 10:04

Thank you indeed Brendan and David for your supporting views, and I’m sure that if a survey had ever been carried out amongst thinking folks as to the popularity of the Mark Vs the "Ayes would have had it." We all have regrets on the lines of "Oh, if only I’d had my camera" and just such an occasion for me and a friend was when we foolishly omitted to take ours to Saltaire on the last evening of trolleybus operation. The trolleybuses had left that morning to take up service and were never to return to Saltaire Depot. In that quiet Saturday mid evening the front yard was full of new Mark V AEC Regents, and someone had taken the trouble to set all the route numbers to "O I L" – rather a nice touch really. So, to the lay passengers, its perhaps understandable to a degree that the complete difference in the nature of their future riding experience came as a culture shock, especially as I suppose only a minority were gifted as devotees of classical auto-mechanical music !!

Chris Youhill


14/07/13 – 14:21

My first contribution to this site quite a while back now was in defence of the much maligned Bradford Mk.V’s – and Mk.V’s in general – and I remember being heartened by Chris Youhill’s brilliantly worded response, as I then realised I wasn’t the only person on the planet who appreciated their qualities and characteristics.
At the risk of covering old ground, Regent V’s were most certainly not Southall’s most durable and troublefree model, nor the most refined – that accolade in my opinion belongs with their 9.6 preselector Mk.III. I admit that Bristol, Guy and Daimler probably all turned out far more rugged, reliable, and economical products.
There were so many different variants on the Mk.V theme. Permutations of short ones, long ones, lightweight and heavyweight, AV470/590/690/691′s, ones with the old 9.6, synchromesh or Monocontrol, tin front or conventional – they were all fascinatingly different, with widely varying characters and levels of durability and performance.
Even apparently similar ones could perform quite differently. At Halifax we had sixteen of our ‘own’ and a small number of ex-Hebble ones. Though all were 30ft. AV590/Synchromesh types I believe ‘ours’ had in-line fuel pumps, whereas the Hebble ones had rotary pumps and performed quite differently – much better actually. Some could even be a bit dull – I always thought that Yorkshire Woollen’s Metro-Cammell-bodied ones were rather lacking in something.
Then in PTE days we received quite a few ex-Bradford ones either on loan or transferred. These were a revelation, infinitely better than any of ours, and from my own purely personal enthusiast/driver/non-engineering point of view were the most satisfyingly pleasurable buses that I have ever driven during my 40 year career.
Absolutely loved ‘em !

John Stringer


15/07/13 – 08:27

36 hours ago I was enjoying working on Leigh Renown 28.
A journey from West Yorkshire to the East Coast and back for tea! Fantastic gearbox music and a booming exhaust.
I am a Bradford lad and loved the Mark Vs.

Geoff S


15/07/13 – 08:28

Just because one holds a less than rhapsodic view of a particular piece of machinery, that does not automatically brand one as an insensitive or clumsy driver. My driving experience of the Regent V was limited to the Halifax examples, and I make no apology for stating that I found them crude and unpleasant machines. On the plus side, they were quite lively, the steering was pleasantly light, and the all synchromesh gearbox was extremely easy to use. However, the clutch was excessively light and vague in operation, so that, unlike the much heavier but predictable Leyland clutch, one could never be exactly sure when transmission engagement would occur. Many drivers got round this by slipping the clutch in at (to my mind) excessive revs, which, in turn, gave rise to a juddery take off from rest, but I would endeavour to take greater care (yes, even though I was not the greatest fan of the Regent V). The ear splitting gearbox howl in the indirect ratios, which were perpetually required on the Halifax hills, plus the indescribable racket from the accelerator pedal as it rattled freely when released under braking or when descending hills, made the Regent V the noisiest bus, by a huge margin, that I have ever driven (though the Seddon Pennine IV is close behind). The accelerator pedal had an incredibly light return spring, so that holding the pedal at an intermediate position for driving at modest speeds left one with an aching ankle, and the air brakes had a totally non progressive feel to them. A gradual depression of the pedal produced no effect at all until suddenly over application came about. Easing off again then produced no result until, with a whoosh of escaping air, the brakes released entirely. This was a feature of AEC air brakes on other contemporary bus models, such as the Reliance. How Southall lost the knack of designing smooth progressive brakes after the excellent Regal III/Regent III, puzzles me to this day. John Stringer’s comment re in line v distributor fuel pumps is interesting, as it is generally held that the in line pump is more tolerant of variable fuel quality. I suspect the the distributor pumps on the Hebble buses were set rather more generously.
We all have our own favourites and bête noires, and such views should surely be respected. I certainly refute the implication that my opinion of the Regent V arises from a shortfall in competence.

Roger Cox


15/07/13 – 10:25

I think the gentleman protesteth too much. I may have missed something, but I cannot recollect anyone accusing Roger of incompetence.

David Oldfield


15/07/13 – 10:26

As far as I can see, nobody has implied that at all Roger.

John Stringer


 

Quick links to the  -  Comments Page  -  Contact Page  -  Home Page

 


 

Blackburn Corporation – Leyland PS1 – BCB 340/EAS 956 – 7

Blackburn Corporation - Leyland PS1 - BCB 340/EAS 956 - 7
Copyright Duncan Holden

Blackburn Corporation Transport
1948
Leyland Tiger PS1
Crossley B32F

Blackburn Corporation Transports roots go back to the first services in 1881, the trams, unusually, being wholly steam-hauled for the whole period, with corporation takeover and subsequent electrification in 1901.
Bus services started in 1929. Tramway closures started in 1935, but the system’s complete demise was delayed by the unpleasantness between 1939 and 1945; finally closing in 1949.
In March 1948, BCT took delivery of five single-deck Leyland PS1’s, with Crossley B32F bodies, the second half of an order placed in 1947. This second batch were numbered 6-10 (BCB 339-343). They were delivered with the typical Crossley body design of two shallower rear windows. At some stage, these four windows were altered to resemble the others. They also had painted radiators, later becoming chrome. Clayton Dewandre heaters were a fitment, and unusually, for a bus, the front entrance has a recessed sliding door. You can see the emergency exit in the rear of the bus. BUS - Blackburn No. 7 Rear-1
The buses spent most of their lives on the so-called East/West route, merely bearing the words EAST or WEST on their blinds. Quaintly, the rear ‘blind’ was a very small window box low down on the rear nearside, with a flap hinged across the centre. The flap moved up or down to expose either ‘EAST’ or ‘WEST’, printed on short vehicle registration plates – crude, but effective!
The batch was finally withdrawn from service between 1964 and 1969, No. 7 being withdrawn on 28/2/1967. However, it remained in the fleet, eventually as a heritage vehicle, being transferred to the company’s coaching arm, Blackburn Coachways. It was very active in the preservation scene in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s.
Some time after 1998, she was re-registered EAS 956. (The BCB 340 registration was transferred, firstly, to a Volvo B10M coach in the Blackburn Transport fleet, in 2002; then going onto East Lancs-bodied Dennis Trident double decker No.1, which carried the mark, until being sold to Blackpool in 2007).
Blackburn Corporation - Leyland PS1 - BCB 340/EAS 956 - 7
Copyright Chris Hebbron

In 2004, the PS1 was sold and purchased by keen bus enthusiast, Merddyn Jones, of Jones International Coaches of Llandeilo, who mechanically restored it. My photo was taken in 2007, outside Jones’s garage. Imagine how surprised I was to find a Blackburn bus, perchance, in rural Wales!
In 2008, the bus was acquired by Silver Star Holidays, of Caernafon. It earns its keep, together with an impeccable 1950 Burlingham-bodied AEC Regal III (LPT 328) , on vintage coach tours/weddings etc. In a photo I’ve seen, dated last January, it was looking very smart, apparently having had a repaint.
A sister vehicle, No.8 (BCB 341) has also been preserved.
A keen Leyland aficionado, Merddyn now owns something bigger, an ex-Southdown ‘Queen Mary’.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron (with thanks to Duncan Holden and Merddyn Jones).


26/09/11 – 06:23

7 didn’t remain with Blackburn after withdrawal. It went into private preservation in the Manchester area. I recall it appearing nicely restored in the early eighties and it was still with an owner in Stockport at that time. Blackburn only bought it back later.
It is worth crediting Duncan Holden’s site as it is an excellent example of what can be done on one operator. If you like Blackburn’s fleet allow yourself plenty of time to look at it http://www.olivegreenandivory.co.uk

David Beilby


04/10/11 – 17:14

Thanks, David, for filling in a gap of which I wasn’t aware.

Chris Hebbron


27/10/11 – 07:29

Thank you for the correction to the history of Blackburn 7 (BCB 340).
In 1968 – 7 was sold to a dealer along with most of the remaining batch and was expected to be scrapped, but she was sold to a youth band and toured Europe.
Laid up after 1973, I and three friends rescued and purchased 7 in 1976 at the eleventh hour for its scrap value, in a semi derelict, vandalised condition, from a Stockport group, with a ceased frost damaged engine and we spent several years rebuilding it to a very high standard. We rallied it extensively from 1977 to 1992 when we sold it back to Blackburn, who had hired it from us occasionally. Blackburn did nothing to it and sold it on to Jones. Its ivory/off white colour has been repainted in the wrong shade, and applied around the cab, which is incorrect. The green and lining out is as we applied it with varnish in 1985. It had had a full mechanical rebuild in the 1980′s including the engine. We were very fond of it and it is nice to see it still looking good and earning its keep, which is exactly how we wanted it to be. I still have most of its history and some other information. A lovely bus to own and drive!

Steve Heginbotham


27/10/11 – 13:58

Thx for filling in some more detail. Your tale is so typical of the trials and tribulations which vehicles (and restorers) go through and the wonder is how some vehicles ever survive them! Have you been involved in any more restorations?

Chris Hebbron


08/11/11 – 06:45

Yes, both me and my Brother-in-law where involved in the very early stages of the restoration of Manchester tram 765 when it was kept in Birchfields Road depot. I also did some dismantling work on a similar tram to Stockport 5 and the parts (to equip 5) were kept in our house for several years. I also restored cars, motorcycles, and 3 AFS vehicles. Alas I now only have two vintage motorcycles and devote my spare time to compiling books on transport. We went to Blackburn Transport in 1977 for a crash course in vehicle body restoration and professional painting skills,which is why 7 still looks so good. 8 layers of hand applied, top quality paint, perfectly matched and applied with brushes at £30 each in those days!!
We also considered buying sister bus number 8 when it was kept at Burtonwood Airfield, and then almost completely intact.

Steve Heginbotham


09/11/11 – 06:15

Phew, Steve, someone should give you a medal for your efforts, although I know you’d argue it was a labour of love! It’s certainly a record to be proud of, anyway!

Chris Hebbron


01/12/12 – 09:18

The Olive Green & Ivory website mentioned above has been having problems with images being freely filched and used on the web by others. It was taken down completely, but in response to many requests a small part of it has now been reinstated, with anti-theft watermarking.
Please help the webmaster by following the link to the site, looking at the quality of the few pics that have been reinstated, and leaving your (helpful and productive, please) comments. www.olivegreenandivory.co.uk

Tony


BCB 340_2_lr Vehicle reminder shot for this posting


07/02/13 – 14:27

This is a question for Steve Heginbotham, I’m trying to trace the sister bus BCB 341 – I am unable to contact ‘Queensbury Old Farts Club’ as their email won’t receive and they are the last know owners…. Can you help? Or can anybody else help? Please??

Rachel


07/02/13 – 16:48

Classic Bus website shows BCB 341 vehicle now owned by Mr Young in Faversham but that was in 2010
Blackburn 8, PS1 {472994} / Crossley B32F, 1948, BCB 341, North West Museum of Transport 2005. To Beeby, Huddersfield 10/06. Queensbury Old Farts Motor Club, Bradford 2007, but restoration stalled. Sold on eBay 10/09 to Young, Faversham. Major work underway 2010.

Ken Jones


11/02/13 – 06:58

Thanks Ken – that’s as far as I got with her too – does anyone know who Mr Young is? or even better how to contact him? Many thanks.

Rachel


 

Quick links to the  -  Comments Page  -  Contact Page  -  Home Page

 


 

All rights to the design and layout of this website are reserved     Old Bus Photos does not set or use Cookies but Google Analytics will set four see this

Old Bus Photos from Saturday 25th April 2009 to Wednesday 3rd September 2014