I've just come across a Pathe Film entitled "The Traffic Moves - 1933" (see the link below).
It features Berlin's trams, buses and S-bahn trains taking up their daily duties (claiming to be in 1933). However, my attention was drawn to the scene showing their imposing six-wheel double-deckers on a "skid pan".
When did London start using their skid pan?
Was it earlier than 1933?
Does anyone know which other operators had one?
Was the skid pan a German idea after all?
Link to view film - www.britishpathe.com/
Paul Haywood
01/08/12 - 12:04
Manchester City Transport had a skid pan at their Bennett Street Training Department, behind Hyde Road Depot. It lasted well into Greater Manchester Buses days.
John Stringer
02/08/12 - 07:35
The British Pathe website also has a 'short' called 'School for Skids' showing LT's skid pan in 1947, showing Tilling ST's (there's a surprise, poor things)and LGOC STL's.
Incidentally, I've always been intrigued by Berlin's pre-war deckers. They were certainly working in 1944, but no doubt suffered badly by May 1945. Does anyone know the make of chassis and body? The pig-snout significantly beats that of the Dennis Ace!!
Chris Hebbron
02/08/12 - 07:36
Paul, a quick look on YouTube brought forth a British Pathe clip 'School For Skids' (Skidpan at Chiswick Works), showing London Transport STL853 (BXD592) on the skid pan. An interesting clip, but unfortunately undated. However, another Pathe News clip 'Busmen's New School' is dated as 1937, and depicts the then Minister of Transport, Mr Leslie Burgin, declaring London Transport's new "Training Ground" open. He is seen with Lord Ashfield, first Chairman of London Transport. Again worth a watch for another view of an STL on the skid pan. Looks like you may be right that Germany pipped us to the post on that one! Unless, as the saying goes, "anyone knows different...."
Brendan Smith
02/08/12 - 11:34
Chris. Post-war Berlin deckers were almost exclusively MAN. I know pre-war German commercials, like the cars, sometimes had different names for more familiar post-war marques. I suspect MAN, or father of MAN. [There was also a hint of Parisian in the buses on the clip.]
David Oldfield
02/08/12 - 11:35
Re the date of the first Pathe News clip, it is after 1935 because a Ford 8 Model C passes by but also must be after 1938 as a just pre War/early post War Hillman Minx can be spotted. My guess, late 1939 judging by the general look of the traffic.
Richard Leaman
03/08/12 - 18:00
David, this link takes you to an interesting site for the Berlin double-deckers. It seems that the standard pre-war d/d's were NAG and Bussing for the four-wheel D2's of 1925, Bussing for the six-wheel D3's of 1929/1934 and Mercedes for the six-wheel D38's of 1938. NAG merged into Bussing and Bussing merged into MAN which of course supplied many post-war d/d's to Berlin. How on earth the driver of these snout-nosed monsters managed to judge their stopping distance is beyond me. www.doppelstockbus.de
Paul Haywood
The following link shows a skid pan in 1929 www.britishpathe.com/
Ian Matthews
29/01/13 - 17:53
Manchester Corporation had a skid pan at Hyde Rd behind the Car Works. It was also used by the City Police. A particular Inspector in the 1960s would demo how he could lift a rear wheel on a PD2 to impress the new recruits and also those of us lucky enough to be trained on the pan from outside companies.
My employer at the time, concerned at the winter accidents to its car fleet had us all trained using old Ford Anglias - which interestingly had the same 3 speed box and gear lever as the 1967 Cortina I drove. No namby pamby outrigger wheels or dual computerised controls. To get the certificate you had to not only attend the course but be passed by both an MCTD and a City Police Inspector.
One of the most worthwhile courses I ever did. Now if only I could have got my hands on a PD2!!
Phil Blinkhorn
30/01/13 - 06:14
Well for my money the 1929 Pathe film showing LGOC B Types on the Chiswick Skid Pan proves that we got one over on the Germans. We skidded to a halt first!
Mind you, the German mass departures are impressive, but I couldn't help thinking that the speeding trams exiting the depot was a bit 'staged'. After all, most tram depots have a fan of tracks that lead into a single connection onto the highway.
If the trams had continued at that speed, there would have been an almighty crash, just behind the cameraman's right shoulder!
Peter Murnaghan
21/02/21 - 07:25
When I joined London Transport, I already held a PSV as I had been a bus driver in Cambridge, but I had to do three weeks training, culminating in the skid pan training. It was a very short lesson,two laps, and the first one ended up with the DD skidding through about 270 degrees, and the back wheel slamming back on to the wet tarmac. The second lap was attempting to stop as soon as possible using cadence braking, and keeping control of the direction of the bus. It was immensely enjoyable, but no, they wouldn't let me have another go! I was sent to work at New Cross and really enjoyed working for LT.
Norman Long
22/02/21 - 07:02
I omitted to mention that the reason the bus skidded right round on the first lap was because the instructor reached through from behind me and yanked the hand brake on as we came on to the water covered tarmac. He did warn me to be ready. He then explained that pulling the handbrake up for an emergency stop in the wet was NOT the right thing to do, but that keeping the bus under control using cadence braking in as straight a line as possible was all important. We also observed other drivers undergoing the same training for a short while. The bus wheels had a large white cross painted on them like spokes so that it could be seen that a driver was braking correctly.
Norman Long
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