Hants & Dorset Southampton Depot

The above two shots just turned up with no comment apart from the 'Subject' which I have used as the heading. There was a name with the mail but as there was no comment I think at this moment anonymity maybe the order of the day.

Peter

07/10/13 - 14:05

It looks as if the two photographs are taken from different places inside the garage, but of the same group of vehicles. I date them as being taken some time in the 1920's. In the second view, EL 7368 is seen clearly. This was - according to the PSV Circle listing PK781 - a Leyland G5, introduced in January 1920 and withdrawn in October 1929. The bodywork was Beadle B34R. Disposal was for scrapping. PK781 includes an interesting snippet in that while it is noted as a G5, even in the maker's catalogue, the maker's own sales records say it was a "N".
The location, so far as I can ascertain, was Grosvenor Square, Southampton. The east wall formed the west wall of the Bedford Place Coach Station. These structures were demolished in the late 1980's during an asset stripping exercise by an emerging group based in Scotland. It certainly looks as if it was the "Depot" rather than either the Engineering Works in Villiers Road, Shirley, or the Body Works in Winchester Road, Shirley. For one thing, we appear to have just a parking area, rather then with even the simplest of inspection pits which might be found in most garages.

Pete Davies

07/10/13 - 17:52

I was informed that the 'Scottish Company' (is that a bit like the Scottish play), got more for the Southampton Depot than they paid for the whole Company.
The tax payer (that's you and me) lost out again, as with a lot of the NBC sell off.

Stephen Howarth

08/10/13 - 07:41

Yes, Stephen, that is what I remember of the transaction at the time!

Pete Davies

08/10/13 - 10:22

Although I follow the 'logic' in the suggestion that it is the Grosvenor Square garage, I think the pictures are actually taken at the 368 Shirley Road base. The reasons for that are that the Grosvenor Square site was only acquired by H&D in 1935, the garage being completed in 1938 - and by then the fleet did not include vehicles such as the Leylands shown ! The roof glazing of the Grosvenor Square premises was two relatively narrow lengthwise sections, one either side of the apex. (as on page 18 of David Fereday Glenn's "Bus Operators 3, Hants & Dorset" published by Ian Allan) There is a picture of the body shops at 368 on page 7 of "Hants & Dorset" in Venture's Prestige series, and other views on page 53 of Colin Morris's 1996 edition of "Hants & Dorset a History" published by DTS. The image left centre in the latter shows the roof structure to be like that in the 'mystery pictures', and notes that the vehicle chassis could be suspended from above - without any pits.
Interesting pictures though, so thank you to whoever has sent them in !

Peter Delaney

08/10/13 - 13:03

You could well be correct Peter I assumed they were the old bus depot near the Polygon Southampton. My late father started work for H&D in 1924 and left in 1952, they hung on his office wall at Villiers Rd for years and he liberated them on retirement. The actual caption says:-
The New Hants & Dorset Motor Services Garage Southampton. Architect Charles J Hair, Main contractor W Hayward Bournemouth. They were taken by Max Mills Studios Southampton.
Sorry I know no more, my father died many years go and I recently 'discovered' the photos.

Bob

08/10/13 - 17:47

Yes, gents, I'll go along with the idea that it might have been Shirley Road/Villiers Road body shop, but I thought the illustration in the Venture book showed some element of a pit under the bus on the right. Then again, my eyes might be in a worse state than I was aware of! My sources of information don't have a build date for Grosvenor Square.

Pete Davies

04/07/14 - 11:58

The H&D history books seem to be in agreement that the depot at Bedford Place/Grosvenor Square was built following the acquisition of the site with Tourist Coaches, which took place in 1935.
I'm not sure this is either of the sites mentioned. The roof at Grosvenor Square had the 'peaks' running at right angles to the doors, while these are parallel. The premises at Villiers Road/Shirley Road were fairly small, as I remember them, and don't think there would have been such a wide open space as is shown in these photos. Essentially, the buses could be driven in from Villiers Road, and stood at right angles to the road, but I don't think there was a great deal more space around the vehicles, and they always seemed to be quite close to the doors.
That leaves Winchester Road, which by the 1970s was the body shop. I didn't really know that site (not the part of Shirley that I lived in!), but one of the photos in one of the history books does seem to show a similar roof structure. That site had already been developed before the acquisition of Tourist, so it might well have been built at a time when those vehicles were still in the fleet. So I suspect the photos are of the Winchester Road site, but I will have to try to dig out a couple of the other books to see if there is any more evidence available!

Nigel Frampton

24/09/19 - 04:36

Re- the discussion about where the photos were taken, here's a photo of the H&D Winchester Rd bus depot during its period as a requisitioned dispersal production location for Vickers Supermarine - making Spitfire wings. The roof trusses and panels seem to match well the pre-war images shown.

Alan Matlock

25/09/19 - 05:55

Although Alan's wartime picture does have a similar roof truss to the ones in the original picture, it is unlikely that the pictures with the Hants & Dorset vehicles were taken at the Winchester Road depot (later bodyworks).
EL7368, the Leyland N in the front right of the second image, left the company in October 1929. The vehicles in the background of the first image are CR5342, EL5552, which were withdrawn in December 1926 and May 1927 respectively. If front of those, 'broadside on', is a Crossley, registered XA1570. Hants & Dorset acquired that with the business of Phips of Netley in November 1926.
That would seem to date the pictures as being late 1926 or early 1927.
The Winchester Road premises were acquired (as was Grosvenor Square) with the Tourist business, and as previously noted that was in the middle of 1935.
As to the roof trusses, whilst very similar, the one's in Alan's picture the diagonal braces bolt directly to the main horizontal member, whereas on the picture of the roof with north-lights in the original posting (which looks most similar to Alan's) there is a small metal plate at each of these joins, so I don't think they are of the same roof.

Peter Delaney

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