United Automobile Services
1965
Bristol Lodekka FLF6B
ECW H38/32F
The last time I posted one of my own photographs on site was the 14th of November 2010 which is three
and a half years ago, now that was a very good run I think, thank you to all the contributors for
keeping the site going. So as it as gone a little quiet it is back to my mostly Northern shots, the
first being one of my favourite vehicles.
Seen in Scarborough bus station within the first few weeks of service a fine example of the Bristol
Lodekka. These Lodekkas were powered by the six cylinder Bristol engine and boy could they go,
especially down Burniston Road when on the Scholes Park Rd to Scarborough route I’m afraid I cannot
remember the route number.
(After my beloved AECs) What could be better than a Bristol powered FLF? Well
an FLF6B in Scarborough, of course. Some of my best holidays, and indeed some of my best days out,
have been in Scarborough. (Only bettered by Whitby and Robin Hoods Bay - which are strangely now in
the Borough of Scarborough). Much as I love East Yorkshire, Scarborough is in the North Riding and
in United country. [I don’t care if you think I’m a bolshy old man. Traditional boundries do mean
something.]
David Oldfield
15/05/14 - 07:28
Wonderful shot. These vehicles always looked so solid and well built. The
Tilling Red ones always looked much better to me than the green fleets. The thing so fascinating
about old bus photographs is the incidental stuff in the photos. The ‘Black & White Minstrel
Show’ so politically incorrect by today’s standards and Roses Malton Ales. Bought out and killed off
by Tetleys who in turn have been bought out and virtually killed off by Carlsberg!
Philip Halstead
15/05/14 - 09:49
Yes, Philip. You jogged a memory. The only time I ever saw the Black & White
Minstrels live was at Scarborough - as was the only time I saw Tommy Cooper live. [Just like that!]
Could be they looked solid and well built because they were, and I agree with you about Tilling
Red.
David Oldfield
15/05/14 - 11:37
This is indeed a lovely shot of a handsome bus, set off nicely by that red
livery. As a former West Yorkshire employee, I must confess to thinking that United’s livery had a
slight edge over WY’s from the mid-sixties, when the latter started repainting its buses without the
black edging between the red and cream. United retained the black edging and to me their livery then
looked just ‘a cut above’. United’s later change to red-painted wheels rather than traditional
black endeared me to the fleet even more. That said, both companies definitely maintained their own
character, and as an enthusiast I still remained very loyal to West Yorkshire. David, I too must be
a member (part time) of the ‘Bolshy Club’, as I know exactly what you mean about the
importance of traditional boundaries. A friend who has lived in Newton-le-Willows all his life,
still writes Lancashire on his address in correspondence. Newton is officially in Merseyside, but as
he says, "it’s nowhere near the docks". At least the proud folk of East Yorkshire won
their battle to have the county name reinstated, instead of the ridiculous ‘North Humberside’
inflicted in 1974. To many of us the roads around Scarborough and the rest of North Yorkshire just
do not look right with turquoise buses traversing them instead of red ones, and neither do the roads
in Co. Durham and Northumberland. Sorry folks, rant over!
Brendan Smith
15/05/14 - 17:46
Living in the bubble that was Sheffield with AECs (and Leylands) it was always
a refreshing delight to go into Tilling land during holidays. Favourites were United and
Lincolnshire but I had a soft spot for West Yorkshire when I happened that way - even more so when
London journeys linked me up with WYRCC RELH6G coaches. I also remember a journey on the X43 (?)
from Leeds to Scarborough by RE. I then sampled the delights of Western/Southern National when we
holidayed in the West Country, as well as Bristol on the way down. […..and of course that
bastion of AEC, Devon General.] Oh well, nostalgia is a sign of old age. Nurse? Nurse?
David Oldfield
15/05/14 - 17:46
It’s interesting that Brendan notes distinguishing features between United’s
and West Yorkshire’s liveries, even though both were Tilling red/cream. I felt the same in the south
in the early 60’s, with Wilts and Dorset and Thames Valley. Both were Tilling red, but there was
something in "the look" which usually made a slight difference to the eye - Wilts and
Dorset had cast fleet number plates, Thames Valley had painted numbers, for example. I felt the same
about green Tilling companies, such as Hants & Dorset and Southern/Western National. As a teenager
enthusiast, I sometimes felt that Tilling companies could be rather boring because of the
similarities. But once NBC corporate livery appeared, boring took on a new definition - ’nuff
said!
Michael Hampton
16/05/14 - 06:53
According to Bus Lists on the web, full production records exist for 1714 of
these Bristol’s of which 164 were for United. However, another 300 or so were built where only partial
records exist, and some of them went to United, so its not unreasonable to assume that the actual number
they had would have been nearer the 200 mark. Several United depots ran services into Newcastle, and
they always looked well cared for. I cant speak for other depots, but I know that the coaches based at
Whitley Bay depot were always washed by hand.
Ronnie Hoye
17/05/14 - 16:03
A fine picture of a well-loved marque. I think the route number from Scholes
Park Road at that time would be the 116 cross-town service from Scalby Village to Eastfield Estate.
This stopped at Scholes Park Road end on Burniston Road as no service down to Scalby Mills existed
at the time.
The Bristol FLF6B did in fact have a second coming in Scarborough in 1977.
Chronic bus shortages in the United fleet for the Summer season in 1976 had seen the purchase of a
variety of buses from other operators and Scarborough was blessed with some very decrepit MW6G’s
from Crosville which thankfully only lasted a few months in to 1977 pending despatch to Barnsley.
The shortages continued into 1977 and in June of that year United acquired four FLF6B’s from East
Midland which became 545-548 in the fleet. Of these, Scarborough certainly had 546-8 - the PSV
Circle records the withdrawal dates as 1/79 for 546 and later in 1979 for 547-8. My office window at
the time faced onto Westborough (before pedestrianisation) and it was very obvious when 547 or 548
was dragging itself up the hill from the harbour terminus on service 106 to the Hospital which was a
regular turn for these buses together with other town services. There was a bus stop right outside
the office and therefore a variety of aural delights during the day. It was a rather incongruous
situation whereby the delightful drone of an FLF could be followed by the raucous racket of a Mark 1
Leyland National! At the time, I lived at Cloughton Village some five miles out of Scarborough and
on many occasions had need to use United service 114 into Scarborough. Up to 1978, this was a decent
fast service due to an old agreement that out of town services could not pick up inbound within the
Borough boundary which effectively meant picking up at Cloughton, Burniston and Scalby Villages was
allowed but as soon the boundary was reached, ie Hackness Road end approx., then it was non-stop
into Scarborough centre which was excellent. After the agreement was re-negotiated, it was much much
slower due to many stops in the densely populated area within the borough.
My photo is of 547 ANN 566B at Scarborough Westwood Coach Park in October 1979
shortly before withdrawal.
John Darwent
17/05/14 - 16:26
Thanks John my holidays in Scarborough were in from the mid fifties to the mid
sixties. Every year we had a chalet on the North Bay at Scarborough, number 99 actually, and stay in
a B&B in Langdale Rd, we had two ways to get back at night. Walk to the Corner Cafe (Waffle Shop)
then up through Peasholm Park, Columbus Ravine to Langdale Rd. Or up the back of the chalet over the
little train line on to Scholes Park Rd, walk to the top for the bus which was parked waiting in
Scholes Park Rd, it was parked about 100 yds from the junction with Burniston Rd opposite a small
static caravan site, not sure how it turned round, it just seemed to be always there waiting. We
would go by bus in a round about way as far as Dean Rd (Fish and Chips) then down Langdale Rd
Peter
17/05/14 - 19:10
Nice shot of 547 John. It looks in tidy condition, and it must have seemed a
real shame that it was soon to be withdrawn. The bus appears to have a one-track route number blind.
Was this a standard Mansfield District (its original owner) fitment when new?
Brendan Smith
18/05/14 - 06:31
547 certainly was tidy Brendan but I suppose nobody wanted slow old front
engined buses by then despite its condition. I read somewhere that three-track destination numbers
were introduced by Midland General on deliveries in 1966 and later, so 547 being a 1964 bus was
probably equipped with original fitments said to be two track. Letters seemed to be used as prefixes
(the first track) with two numbers on the second track. I’m wondering whether 547 is actually
displaying I16 as a makeshift compilation. Destination displays on Mansfield District buses seems to
vary somewhat between two and three apertures and perhaps somebody can throw some light on this.
Peter, I’m wondering if there was a seasonal service from Scholes Park Road in the 50’s/60’s
in view of what you say. My time in Scarborough started in the mid 1970’s and the earliest timetable
I have is from 1984 from which I have quoted. Any buses going down Scholes Park Road could reverse
at Scholes Park Avenue, so what you say is probably right. If Gordon England or Gordon Green reads
this, they may be able to enlighten us! Present day services by Scarborough & District Motor
Services (EYMS) operate as 3/3A and travel down Scalby Mills Road, more less parallel to Scholes
Park Road, to the Sea Life Centre and then returning to Scarborough via the ‘The Sands’
residential development built on the site of the old ‘Corner Cafe’. Sadly, the aerial ride has
long gone but the North Bay Railway lives on and the Open Air Theatre has recently been restored at
a cost of umpteen million.
Swifts Fish and Chips is on the Dean Road/Trafalgar Road corner,
about 100 yards past Langdale Road- maybe the same site as you recall.
John Darwent
18/05/14 - 07:12
I have been on Google Earth, you are right about the Fish and Chip shop John
but I was wrong about Scholes Park Rd it was actually Scalby Mills Rd. At the time that large
Ivanhoe Pub was the static caravan site that was called the Ivanhoe Caravan site I think there was
also a shop there as well but that fronted onto Burniston Rd. Sorry about that, that’s old age for
you
Peter
19/05/14 - 07:16
All Midland General’s Lodekkas had two track blinds although the earliest ones
were retro fitted. As John D says though, from around 1966, three track blinds began to appear which
was surprising because MGO had no requirement for them apart from a few works services which had Wxx
numbers. ANN 566B was a Mansfield District bus and they all had one track blinds until around 1966.
MDT’s services were numbered between 1 and 219 but only about forty of the numbers were used and the
blinds carried just those plus a few extras for possible future use. Both companies had via blinds
until 1966 when the T layout became standard but no via apertures were ever panelled over, those
which had them carried full displays at all times, until the NBC came along, that is!
Chris Barker
19/05/14 - 07:17
I know exactly what you mean Michael when you say about certain former Tilling
companies having their own ‘look’. To the casual observer, the BTC/THC ‘nationalised
image’ was generally that of Bristol-ECW buses finished in either a red or green livery with one or
two cream bands, or in the case of coaches, cream with red or green relief. However, looking a
little deeper there were many livery variations such as Brighton, Hove & District’s red with cream
window surrounds and roof, Wilts & Dorset’s red, black and cream dual purpose vehicles, and South
Midland’s distinctive application of maroon and cream to its coaches. The ex-Balfour Beatty
companies wore a livery of blue with cream window surrounds (Midland General and Notts & Derby) or
the green version (Mansfield District). Cheltenham District not only retained its distinguished
maroon and cream, but also its unusual layout. Turning to coaches, Bristol OC had its
Bristol-Greyhound cream and red vehicles with distinctive lettering and logo, and who could forget
the cream and black coaches of Crosville? Then there were the ‘classics’ such as
Western/Southern National’s Royal Blue fleet, and the equally well-regarded cream and olive green
coaches of United. In later years came Eastern National’s famous cream and green Lodekka coaches.
Add to the above all the differences in destination layouts, style of fleetname and fleetnumbers,
and it can be observed that the BTC companies were not perhaps as rigid in nature as some people
believed. It surely provided more interest to the enthusiast than any of the big privatised groups
do today.
Brendan Smith
19/05/14 - 07:17
Re 547’s number blind - as John states, from the 1966 deliveries, Mansfield
District (green) and Midland General/Notts and Derby (blue) standardised on 3 track number blinds
(presumably at the behest of ECW,as MGO/NDT didn’t need three track number blinds until 1978 when
the letter/number route numbers were renumbered into the Trent system). Prior to 1966,Lodekkas new
to Mansfield District had single track number blinds, as per 547; Lodekkas new to MGO/NDT had two
track number blinds. The number partly visible on 547 looks like 106, which is probably an original
MDT blind - the range of numbers used in Mansfield, 101 upwards, was not dissimilar to those used in
Scarborough.
Bob Gell
19/05/14 - 07:18
With regard to the ex-East Midland (ex-Mansfield District) No.547, Mansfield
District did for a long time have single track route number blinds. The number of routes they
operated was fairly limited, with three distinct tranches of numbers - single digit, three digit
(100 series) and three digit (200 series). Midland General and Notts & Derby of the same group, also
used single track blinds for many years, but later went over to two or three track (not sure which).
Their route numbering system was one letter followed by a single digit number, (i.e. A1-A9, B1-B9
etc.) This gave them plenty of scope for expansion - as far as I remember, they never got beyond the
G series, though there were a few express or excursion operations that did use other letters. And of
course, there was the odd man out - the route 44, from Derby to Chesterfield, operated jointly with
Trent and East Midland (the only service that took Midland General buses into Derby).
Stephen Ford
19/05/14 - 07:30
My Dad came from Scarborough and as a boy all my summer holidays were spent
there staying with my Grand-parents or uncles/aunties. We also had day trips in between so I have
always considered Scarborough to be my second home town. In the 1960s the service to Scholes Park
Road was numbered 113 and in the timetables the terminus was simply defined as ‘Scholes Park Road’.
However, in a timetable dated 1st October 1937 the terminus is defined as ‘Scalby Mills Road,
Ivanhoe Café’.
The number 113 was the highest number used for a Scarborough town service
during the 1960s, the other town services were numbered in the 100-110 block. Country service
numbers included 111 and 112 plus numbers above 113.
The agreement, to which John D refers,
that existed between Scarborough Borough Council and United Automobile Services started in 1931 when
the old tramway closed and United provided the much expanded town service bus network. (A paragraph
in the book ‘Trams by the sea’ published by United in 1981 reads ‘Under a profit sharing agreement
with United was that the Corporation would receive 1d per mile operated after the first 8d per mile
earned. The Corporation would then take the next 3d per mile earned. Any remaining balances were
halved’).
Service 116 linking Newby via Scarborough to Eastfield Estate was classed as a
country service. The timetable for this (and all the other country services) contained a notation
‘No local passengers may be carried wholly within the Borough of Scarborough’.
We often went
to the Futurist Theatre to see the Black and White Minstrel Show, had a bowl of ice cream in
Pacitto’s ice cream parlour (basket furniture with a sheet of glass on the tops of the table) but
our fish and chips came from Cappleman’s in Murchison Street near where some of my relations lived.
Both still trading as far as I know. The ‘waffle shop’ that Peter mentions was actually part of the
Scarborough Corporation retailing business.
In November 2012 I attended my niece’s wedding in
Scarborough and was sadden to see the development that had wiped away the Corner Café and adjacent
buildings. I have just added a few photographs to my Ipernity site which I took of same. So if you
are of a very nostalgic disposition look away now! www.ipernity.com/doc/davidslater
The United garage was in Vernon Road and today is a publically accessible car park run by the
Palm Court Hotel. During my visit I couldn’t resist parking our car in this superb building during
my stay. The main garage area which could take double and single deckers has had an extra level
added. There was a basement garage accessed through a quite small entrance down the hill of Vernon
Road. This could only take single deckers. I remember as a boy walking by and seeing a United Welsh
coach tightly parked inside along with many others on tour and thinking this United company must be
big to have a Welsh connection. I didn’t know how widespread the former Tilling Group was, nor did I
know much about the British Transport Commission, at that tender age!
David Slater
19/05/14 - 09:17
……and of course it be came more complicated when MGO & MDT swapped
vehicles, as they often did. For a short period of deliveries MGO had 2 tracks and when such
examples were moved over to the MDT fleet, as in 1969 with this 1961 FS6G, there was the need for
special linen so that a 2 track blind could show 3 digits.
Berisford Jones
19/05/14 - 15:37
John D,
Flattered as I am I regret that I cannot add to the discussion
about the turning arrangements at Scholes Park Road. My childhood memories were of Whitby. However I
can claim some connections in the area - my Uncle & Aunt lived in Ryecroft Road (just off Scholes
Park Road and later my cousin on Scholes Park Road itself. In later life after marriage and a
transition from transport to equestrian interests I have been a regular attender and exhibitor at
Burniston Show which has occupied a number of sites in the locality.
Gordon Green
20/05/14 - 16:36
When, as a boy, I stayed with relatives in Newby in the summer, via Northstead
the 116 was worked by single deckers usually an "L". It terminated at Five Lane Ends and
reversed around the corner to the stop. I don’t think it was a cross-town service then.
I have
a Summer 1951 timetable for the town services (100/1/2/3/4/5/6/07/9/10/13). The 113 ran between the
Railway Station and Scholes Park Road - on reaching Burniston Road. The return route is just given
as the reverse of the outward route. the 109 was the seafront service whilst the 110 was the
Oliver’s Mount service.
Malcolm Wells
22/05/14 - 07:21
I commented earlier on the subtle differences between the supposedly same red
or green liveries borne by the Tilling companies’ buses. And, of course, there were all those other
variations which Brendan and others have referred to. I then stated that the NBC red or green was
just plain boring. I still think that’s generally true compared with what went before, but I have to
say that John’s picture of United 547 does indeed look smart. I guess it’s because the paintwork
still has a shine to it, and of course the ECW bodied FLF also exudes a certain quality. However,
whether they were in smart or faded red, there was little to distinguish a United FLF from, say, a
Hants and Dorset FLF in NBC days. Uniformity reigned supreme!
Michael Hampton
22/05/14 - 07:23
When at college and university I spent the summers of 1966, 7 and 8 as a
conductor in Scarborough. On the 113 at Scholes Pk Road the conductor was meant to use a whistle to
signal to the driver when reversing. The snag was he couldn’t hear it so we always used the bell!
Some drivers reversed back onto the main road, but most reversed from the main road.
The
service had three buses providing a 10 minute service. I still have my staff timetable for 1968 -
There was a 10 min service from 07:00(9:30 on sun) - 23:10. For some reason the 23:00 terminated at
Northstead. All the theatres had special journeys and I remember the Futurist had the Black and
Whites at least two of the years I was in United uniform!
Mr Anon
22/05/14 - 07:24
These recollections of Scarborough and the town services, and especially the
sea front service with those full fronted coaches have brought back some very pleasant memories of
childhood holidays. I took this shot of BBL61 (LHN 936) opposite Corner Café in July of 1961 when I
was just thirteen, with an old Agfa camera that my father acquired in Germany during the war. I well
remember some of the town services turning round at a roundabout opposite the main harbour, and the
buses threading their way through some of the narrow shopping streets leading away from the sea
front and up out of the town. Some of the best holidays ever.
Dave Careless
26/05/14 - 09:33
Great picture Dave! The destination blind shows ‘The Mere’ which many
will recall is where one could sail on the Hispaniola and dig for dubloons on Treasure Island. One
of the ‘pirates’ did have only one leg - perhaps a war injury - a prerequisite for such a job?
My Dad or Uncle knew ‘Ben Gunn’ on the island!
For many years the buses on services 100
and 101 showed ‘Edgehill Road’ as the destination which meant little or nothing to
holidaymakers. I recall ‘The Mere’ starting to appear on the buses at some stage.
In the
1960s another uncle and auntie lived in a bungalow on Mere Lane overlooking The Mere, a smart
property then but absolutely fantastic now, so we regularly travelled on the buses to visit.
The last time I looked The Mere was devoid of all the little buildings/kiosks for boat hire,
ice creams etc. There was once an area for water ski-ing.
David Slater
26/05/14 - 11:25
Regarding the route numbers in question, I have a 1962 faretable in which the
113 was a local service from Railway Station to Burniston Road (Scholes Park Road).
The 116
was a cross-town route from Eastfield Estate (Overdale) to Newby (Four Lane Ends), but there were no
short distance local fares for stages between Steamer Moor Road and Cleveland Avenue (presumably the
protected area)
David Todd
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
27/05/14 - 14:03
Fascinating recollections of Scarborough town services back in the day; I
think my favourite United route in the area though was the 111, which ran from Scarborough, through
Filey, and on to Bridlington if I remember rightly. I can’t even think about it without suddenly
smelling fish and chips, or seeing a revolving rack of ‘saucy’ seaside postcards.
Dave Careless
I am not a bus aficionado, just a casual visitor to this site. I remember
Eastern National having some ‘stretched’ versions of the FLF6B or Lodekka. The rear side
windows (quarterlights?) were wider, making the bus about a foot longer. However, I have not seen
any photographs of them on this site. They were a very fast bus.
Martin Robinson
26/09/14 - 05:43
David C - you are right about the 111 service via Speeton and Hunmanby. It did
indeed run to Bridlington where it terminated in its own little United bus station on the Promenade
(east side almost opposite the superb EYMS station) - well, I say bus station but it was actually a
generous forecourt in front of the booking/enquiry office, and is now the outside seating for a
small cafe. Like you, fish and chips, saucy postcards, and Joyland Amusements are my treasured
memories of Bridlington in the 1940s/50s where I stayed often with Grandma and Aunty Doris - now
where are the Kleenex tissues (other brands are available).
Chris Youhill
