North Downs Rural Transport
1961
Albion Nimbus NS3AN
Weymann DP30F

John Wylde’s initial involvement with bus operation occurred with the Orpington Rural Transport Association which operated a service between Biggin Hill and Orpington from 1963. Wylde departed Association shortly afterwards and began running services as North Downs Rural Transport between Orpington and Croydon, with journeys later serving the then new development at Forestdale, Addington. In 1969 North Downs acquired the Mitchell’s coaching business that ran rural services from Warnham into Horsham. Then, In October 1970, A.T. Brady of Forest Green retired and his routes between Horsham, Forest Green and Guildford were taken over by North Downs and the Brady livery of brown and cream was adopted for ‘new’ arrivals in the fleet. To complement the assorted acquired vehicles Wylde bought a trio of ex Western Welsh Albion Nimbus saloons, WKG 34/37/48, and numbered these 17/18/19. The first and last received the brown livery, but WKG 37 remained in Western Welsh red to the end of operations which occurred very suddenly on 17 April 1972. The pictures show WKG 48 in Horsham Carfax in October 1971. Behind it , operating the Horsham - Ewhurst - Forest Green route, is Tillingbourne Guy GS MXX 382, which had been hired in to cover mechanical problems at Forest Green, a portent of what was to come. The unrepainted Nimbus WKG 37 is seen at Rusper on the poorly patronised meandering rural service between Horsham and Crawley, a route that was withdrawn some months before the collapse of the business.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

Charlton-on-Otmoor Services
1939
Leyland TD5
Weymann H28/26R

Not one of my best pictures, I fear, but the Comet S camera did not cope well with action shots. Seen on its way out of Oxford in 1960 is FKO 223, a Leyland TD5 with Weymann H28/26R bodywork. This bus was delivered in 1939 to Chatham & District where it operated as No. 293 until 1942 when it then passed to parent company Maidstone & District as DH365. It was bought by Charlton-on-Otmoor Services in November 1955. It is thought that this bus still remains in existence, but information about its present status is scanty.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

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18/11/19 - 10:41

What a beauty! Had sadly left Charlton-on-Otmoor services by the time I came to Oxford in 1971. Intrigued to hear that it may have survived!

Ian Thompson

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23/11/19 - 06:58

What a handsome bus! How like an AEC were those TDS of the period - two fine British champions of the psv world - worldwide….
I expect we’ve all noticed how nut-rings set off the front wheels, and beautify the overall image. Manufacturers which eschewed them produced utility- looking buses and coaches - just for the sake of those trims. Guy springs to mind, and posh buses with the nut-rings removed in service as contractors site transport, looked truly down-at-heel!
Who can tell me why London transport removed thousands of rear-wheel spats in the 50’s? Those full discs looked very sleek. Few other operators employed them - why?

Victor Brumby

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23/11/19 - 13:46

My 2006 copy of Preserved Buses shows FKO 223 as owned by Gibbons, Maidstone. It may well have moved on now of course but hopefully still about in one piece.

John Darwent

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23/11/19 - 13:47

Those rear wheel discs caused brakes to overheat. Burys PD3s them for a very short time when new but they were very quickly binned. Some of Manchesters Fleetlines had them too and, again, they were quickly discarded. I personally didn’t like them much.

No name given,      yet

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24/11/19 - 15:08

The Gibbons Brothers still own it but have partially stripped it for components. They are asking too much money for it to be a worthwhile restoration exercise unless you have a real passion for M&D.

Roger Burdett

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29/11/19 - 05:54

I think that bus bodies, in the 1938-39 period, finally reached a classic shape, although I never really liked the fluting at the bottom of Weymann’s bodies. I travelled on the Leyland TD4 STL-copy STD’s of London Transport and they looked smart. Their fruity roar and crash gearbox slow changes gave a young lad goose pimples…..until girls overtook my bus passion!

Chris Hebbron

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29/11/19 - 10:10

In regard to previous comments about nut guard rings and rear wheel discs, firstly London Transport removed the rear wheel discs across the fleet in the 1970s, not the 1950s. Manchester ordered discs for all its double deck fleet, except the first batch of Atlanteans, until 1964. The discs don’t cause brake overheating. Manchester in particular had a thing about overheating brakes and regularly cut back front mudguards yet ordered the discs. The reason many fleets didn’t use them and why they were often discarded, in Manchester’s case unofficially and to the ire of authority, was the same reason as the wholesale removal in London - efficiency. They had to be removed every time tyre pressures needed checking, every wheel change and every time wheel nut tightness needed to be checked. On large fleets this added considerable time to maintenance and when accountants costed this and cost won out over appearance, they were officially removed - something Manchester depot foreman had been doing for years, reporting them lost in service.
Nut guard rings were brought in to do exactly what their name implies - to stop drivers using the wheel nuts as steps into the cab. Leyland designed a ring with holes through which nuts could be tightened but only a minority of their chassis were ordered with these. Whilst many operators discarded the rings for the same reason as they discarded or didn’t order discs, others decided the extra effort in maintenance was worth it to protect the wheel nuts.

Phil Blinkhorn

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06/01/20 - 11:11

Regarding previous incorrect comments concerning FKO 223. My brother Chris and I have owned this handsome classic since 1993 (Surely Weymann at it’s best!)
We’ve never actually offered the vehicle for sale.
It’s true the major components are removed but have been/are being completely reconditioned. This has cost many pounds so far as parts have had to be re-made and spares hard to source. We’ve restored many other buses and do fund 99% of work ourselves, not having luxury of a dedicated workforce.
Due to health issues we would consider passing this fine bus on, but only to someone with the wherewithal, dedication and determination to complete the project to a top class standard.
The bus still wears its ‘as withdrawn’ Charlton on Utmoor livery.

Rob Gibbons

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10/01/20 - 11:52

Wonderful to hear that FKO 223 is safe. Restoration can be a very long-term business, often entailing periods where to the outside world nothing seems to be happening. Very glad too to hear that she still wears Charlton-on-Otmoor livery.

Ian Thompson

Leeds City Transport
1957
Daimler CVG6
Weymann H33/27R

Photographed in April 1970 in the dignified livery of Leeds City Transport is Daimler CVG6, Weymann H33/27R, YNW 555, No. 555, one of a batch of twenty delivered in September 1957. This bus remained in service to pass to WYPTE on 1 April 1974.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

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10/10/18 - 05:21

Like many municipalities, Leeds Corporation got full value out of its vehicles, in this case, at least 17 years. Of course, with the impending threat of having to hand over its vehicles to the WYPTE, it might well have just decided not to replace the older ones at that stage!
Do we know when it was finally withdrawn?
One of my two trips to Leeds was to travel its tram system, with its Felthams, in 1957/58, I think. I was shocked at its closure soon afterwards, which seemed illogical with so much of it on reserved track and no employee mentioned impending doom on my visit. Does anyone know what changed to shut it down in such a short timescale?

Chris Hebbron

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11/10/18 - 05:32

Volume 4 of "Leeds Transport" actually reports that 555 was withdrawn on 30/09/1971 and went to a Barnsley dealer for scrapping November 1972.

Dave Towers

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12/10/18 - 06:50

Thanks for that correction, Dave, which I entirely accept. Not possessing a historic Leeds fleetlist, I did find a site that listed this batch of Daimlers as passing to the PTE, but now cannot find it. I understand that these Daimlers had air operated brakes and gearchange, which mercifully shielded unwary drivers from the decidedly painful (I speak from experience with the Halifax examples) affliction known as "Daimler knee".

Roger Cox

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23/10/18 - 05:48

The Leeds Tramway was earmarked for closure from the very early fifties. This was despite a good deal of pro tram sentiments among the public.
These and a similar batch bought a year earlier were Leeds fist buses with tin front.

Chris Hough

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06/06/21 - 06:39

Yes as Chris said the Leeds system was earmarked for closure in the 1960’s but events brought the sad end earlier than expected on the 7th November 1959. Its quite amazing the number of photographs, both black and white and colour, of the system that are still around. It must be said that a great debit is owed to the National Tramway Museum and the LTHS and collectors such as Robert Mack, Keith Terry and Jim Soper and no doubt countless others.

David Walton

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01/09/22 - 07:19

Recently I have been looking at the Leeds and District Transport News back issues for the 1950’s and Daimler CVG6 and CVD6 are both referred to at different times as having the name Victory. I think this could be a mistake, the CVD6 could be rightly given this term, but not the CVG6. What does your readership know about this.

David Patrick Walton

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04/09/22 - 06:52

Why not the CVG6…please explain, David? Surely the chassis was what mattered, not the engine. Incidentally, there were CVA6’s, too, although not in Leeds.

Chris Hebbron

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05/09/22 - 07:04

Does David not understand the Daimler naming system?
COG Coventry Oil engine Gardner. Pre-war. AEC engines also available.
CWG Coventry Wartime Gardner. Wartime. AEC engines available.
CVG Coventry Victory Gardner. Post-war. AEC/Daimler available

David Oldfield

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06/09/22 - 05:26

I would suggest that the "naming" suggested by David Oldfield referred to the model coding system rather than the naming of the chassis as such.
The Daimler CWA6, CWD6 and CWG5 models were all known as "Wartime Daimlers".
Thus the Daimler CVD6, CVG5, CVG6 and CVA6 became known as "Victory Daimlers" in the early post-war years to reflect the new Daimler chassis introduced after the war, irrespective of the engine fitted, but I have not heard the name Victory being applied to anything new after about 1948/9.

John Kaye