Crosville Motor Services
1966
Bristol RELL6G
ECW DP50F

Crosville had a very large operating area, and Aberaeron Depot was almost 100 miles from the Company’s headquarters at Chester Here we see three of the Company’s earlier RE’s lined up in the Depot yard.
ERG 595 registration HFM 595D was one of Crosville’s only three examples of the RELL6G in it’s earliest version, with manual gearbox and the first style of ECW bodywork. These three vehicles were the first dual-purpose RELL’s, previous dual purpose RE’s for other operators having been based on the RELH chassis. These three vehicles were new in the short lived dual-purpose livery of cream with a single green band. Although fitted for OMO from new, they were initially used with conductors on the Chester - Caernarfon "Cymru Coastliner" service. Eventually ERG 593 and 595 were eventually transferred to Aberaeron depot, where they were used on the lengthy services southwards from Aberystwyth. At the end of their lives they were fitted with bus seats to increase their capacity on school workings.
SRG 10 registration OFM 10E was a standard RELL6G bus, one of the earliest examples with semi-automatic gearboxes and the second body style. Although the long bus version was the most common variant of the RE model, only about a third of Crosville’s 317 RE’s were of this type.
CRG 496 registration 5458 FM was a 1963 RELH6G coach, one of Crosville’s first quartet of RE’s. Having been used on the Liverpool - London express services, it was now living a quieter life in rural Mid-Wales.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Don McKeown

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26/09/13 - 06:42

RE; my favourite rear engined bus; RELH; second only to the ZF Reliance in my coaching affections. Ironic that I’ve only just posted (with the King Alfred Bridgemaster) about the abortive attempts to put AH691s into REs. A very nice shot of a classic trio.

David Oldfield

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26/09/13 - 18:04

I totally agree with you David. One man operating was more of a pleasure when driving an RE, and for me the longer the journey the better. I’d rather drive a country service any day than monotonous town services around Cambridge. We had two of the manual gearbox RE’s which were referred to by everyone as RS’s. They had a top speed of about 80+ which I discovered one day on the 428 service to Bedford. I hadn’t any passengers on at one stage of the journey, and kept my foot down on a long straight section to satisfy my curiosity. The later RE’s with semi-auto gear selection were my absolute favourites especially the coaches…. luxury for both passenger and driver.

Norman Long

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27/09/13 - 07:01

Yes, Norman. I had a RELL6L on the M4 once which just flew. (I had to reign back because the unladen front was coming off the road surface.) …..and I fully agree about the RELH - true luxury for driver and passenger.

David Oldfield

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27/09/13 - 10:56

One of the best coach journeys I ever made was aboard an ECW coach bodied RE. The seats were very comfortable the leg room adequate and the coach gave a wonderfully smooth ride. The coach was far from new but would still knock modern stuff into a cocked hat.

Chris Hough

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28/09/13 - 07:21

For a while I lived in Chipping Sodbury and worked in Bristol, and my evening journey home was usually on a semi-automatic RELH6L coach cascaded to bus duties, which made for an extremely relaxing end to the working day. The only problem was that because 234&5 on the gear selector were in the same positions as 123&4 on the more familiar four-speed version, the drivers changed gear at the same speeds. So the engine never really got into its stride before changing up - most frustrating, and a good thing there were no serious hills on the journey!

Peter Williamson

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29/09/13 - 10:45

A delightful trio. I concur with the praise of the RE coach. I was smitten from a young age by long Royal Blue journeys from Victoria Coach Station to Bridport and Perranporth. And those preserved today are still robust, strong and comfortable, with none of the rattles and harshness of modern coaches.
I believe that the manual gearbox version had the edge on top speed, although the semi auto might have been an easier driver’s coach.

Petras409

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30/09/13 - 15:41

In the early 1970’s, I and my young family were fairly frequent users of the overnight Scottish coach service from Edinburgh to London Victoria (then travelling on by coach to family in Clacton or Portsmouth). The coaches were the stylish Alexander M-type, supplied on a variety of chassis. At one point, SBG distributed a survey to all the passengers, and I remember completing one part of the comments section with my opinion of the ride the different makes offered! Who knows what the recipients thought of that. I don’t recall what comments I made about AEC (sorry, guys) or Seddon (not sure whether these had been introduced at the time). But I do know that I stated I found the Leyland Leopards hard or harsh on springing, and the Bristol REs a nice soft ride for a night-time sleep. (But, regrettably - and a pointer to the future - , I found that Volvos were the most comfortable on this journey). So I can largely concur with the comments here on the Bristol RE in it’s other forms as coach and bus - even though I am not a driver. (And, yes, some drivers on the SBG service really did make a change en-route on the motorway, with the vehicle in motion - I’m sure I wasn’t dreaming it!)

Michael Hampton

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30/09/13 - 17:42

Well it was a party trick that H & S wouldn’t countenance now but lots of things happened when we were lads! As for Volvos, they were a later generation and cannot fairly or safely be compared.

David Oldfield

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30/09/13 - 17:43

They were some long journeys, Michael, in time and distance. Your mention of moving driver-changing reminds me of one experience of this.
Around 1970, my wife and I, impoverished, decided to have a cheap holiday and booked a Cosmos 10-day one to Lido de Jesolo for £29 each! I think it was rail to Dover, then a Belgian Railways passenger ferry to Ostende. A driver with an Alfa Romeo coach met us and off we went. After about an hour, we stopped by the side of the motorway and picked up another driver who took over and the original driver went to the back of the coach to sleep. The driver could not seem to get the hang of the eight-speed gearbox and there was a smell of burning. The original driver took over the wheel (without stopping) and carried on until we had a late-meal stop at Aachen. We were halfway back in the coach and, throughout the night, kept hearing loud talk and loud bursts of laughter from the front. When we stopped around 5am for a ‘comfort break’ it transpired that the relief driver had disappeared at Aachen and the original driver had continued at the wheel, inevitably starting to fall asleep at the wheel periodically! Being British, those nearest the driver did not ask him to pull over and take a rest, rather they kept a close vigil and started the false loud chatter/laughter to wake him up whenever he drooped! We were glad to be well away from the drama at the front! Suffice to say we arrived safely and many more hilarious things, not bus-related, occurred during the holiday!

Chris Hebbron

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01/10/13 - 06:30

About six years ago, I was involved in driving a summer time shuttle from Uxbridge to Les Deux Alps (in the south of France) taking students snow-boarding. To comply with hours, and also keep a tight schedule, we had four drivers - but we always stopped at proper halts by the road side. I had an interesting drive down the side of the mountain on a typical zig-zag road. Now changing on the move there would have been VERY interesting…..

David Oldfield

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02/10/13 - 07:13

I never had the pleasure of driving an RELH6G, but I knew a couple of United’s drivers on the Newcastle/London route, and they spoke very highly of them. United always specified a lower seating capacity for the vehicles on this route, and the extra legroom made them very popular with passengers. They were worked hard, but well looked after. A six hundred mile round trip to London was nothing unusual for them, one crew took them down, then stay overnight or through the day, the vehicles went to London Transports Victoria depot, where they were cleaned out, refuelled and checked over before returning north with a different crew who had come south the previous night or day, then the same routine at the Newcastle end. On occasion, they were used on the Lowestoft or Glasgow runs, or on private hires and excursions. Some of them must have clocked up a phenomenal mileage during their lives.

Ronnie Hoye

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Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

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02/12/13 - 11:22

Just came across this site whilst looking for a picture to show my kids of the type of buses I went to school on.
Amazed to find the actual buses! From 1975 to 1980 I went from NewQuay to school in Aberaearon, initially on older rounded front buses, possibly Bristol LS’, then from about 77 on these beauties. They were still in use when I finished school but were joined by a Leyland National, which for some reason we called ‘The Prison Bus’ can’t remember why, it may have had something to do with the plastic seats and lots of bars/grab rails. I think the white one on the right had big coach like opening roof vents that you could fit a school bag out of, don’t ask me how I know!

Richard Snelus

Crosville Motor Services
1964
Bristol Lodekka FS6G
ECW H33/27RD

Here is a Bristol Lodekka FS6G with rear entrance ECW body and dates from 1964. Crosville bought both long and short F series Lodekkas. DFG157 is one of the short ones. It was withdrawn by Crosville in 1977 and is now preserved
Photographed 8/5/2011 whilst in service at The Wedgwood Potteries rally – Take me home country roads.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones

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21/05/13 - 15:47

I always thought the FS was a more subtle bus than the FLF with just the right amount of side profile curvature, I can never decide whether I prefer this destination indicator layout or the T type as used by West Yorkshire. The bus is a true post war classic especially when fitted with a Bristol engine, although others may differ.

Chris Hough

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22/05/13 - 07:30

The Bristol BVW engine and the earlier AVW, like the Daimler CD6, were introduced in part to relax the constraints placed upon chassis production volumes by the limited supply of Gardner power plants. The AVW was a straightforward dry liner engine, and proved fairly trouble free, but the wet liner BVW, introduced in 1957, did give problems in service, and went through a series of modifications. In the 1970s, when the Stokes led Leyland empire dominated the industry, BVW production was halted and spares became very difficult to obtain. Several Tilling group companies re-engined some of their BVW powered Lodekkas with Gardner units in consequence.

Roger Cox

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22/05/13 - 08:55

And it’s the "right" shade of green for a Bristol/ECW combination, not that dreadful NBC attempt . . .

Pete Davies

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22/05/13 - 09:39

Roger, is of course, right in every respect. What he didn’t say was that there were continuing capacity problems at Gardner’s and British Leyland then offered the O.600 as an alternative to the withdrawn BVW option - which was taken up by Hants & Dorset and Wilts & Dorset.

David Oldfield

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22/05/13 - 11:11

And once again Ken, a really superb photo of a preserved bus caught in a timeless landscape looking just as it would have in its heyday, rather than parked in a line up on some car park, all covered in rally stickers, and surrounded by stalls and people in high-vis. Keep up the good work !
I agree with you about the FS, it was a superbly proportioned design. Just ‘right’. Though the Gardner engined Lodekka almost by definition had to be the most reliable and efficient version, speaking purely from an enthusiast’s aesthetic point of view, they just had to have Bristol engines. Along with most AEC’s, the Bristol-engined Bristol was one of my favourite bus sounds ever.

John Stringer

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22/05/13 - 17:51

You and me both, John - AEC & Bristol engines. But there were problems with wet-liners with both makes…..

David Oldfield

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23/05/13 - 07:58

The whine of a Regent V box always made me think we`re going back to the days of the TD1 !

Jim Hepburn

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23/05/13 - 07:58

Ken, thank you for posting a photograph that is beyond superb. This photograph manages to capture the very essence of Crosville, a Bristol Lodekka and a rural scene. I could look at this photograph for hours and never get tired.

Kevin Hey

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23/05/13 - 07:59

May I suggest that the date was Sunday the 18th rather than the 8th? I was at the Rally and travelled on this Lodekka. It brought back fond memories of my daily travels from Gresford to grammar school in Wrexham on umpteen Crosville Ks and Lodekkas on the D1 service heading ultimately for Llangollen.
When I filmed the bus at the Rally mid-afternoon, it was displaying ‘Private’ and ‘D45’. Presumably, the destination had been changed to avoid misleading any intending passengers, though an ex-Devon General Atlantean proudly displayed ‘Dawlish’ all day.

This was the first time I’d attended the Potteries Rally and was amazed to see the line-up of elderly vehicles put on show by the Emerton Brothers as ‘Bounty Country Buses’. Seeing a Dennis Ace and two Crossley coaches, among other gems, was a truly heart-warming experience.

Berwyn Prys Jones

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23/05/13 - 07:59

A lovely shot Ken, and good to see the bus in Tilling green as Pete says. Also good to see the Lodekka grille and surround as they should be, and not painted green as sadly Crosville appeared to do with so many of their Lodekkas on repaint. (Northern General treated their acquired examples similarly if memory serves correctly). Even if the buses were sprayed, rather than hand-painted, surely there was no excuse for such corner-cutting shodiness. Things didn’t improve with the advent of NBC’s corporate livery, as Crosville along with many other NBC subsidiaries, then painted the mudguards the same colour as the main bodywork as well. Some operators (West Yorkshire, Southern Vectis and Red & White spring to mind) at least attempted to keep some standards under NBC’s somewhat cheapened paint application, by retaining black mudguards front and rear. This did seem to lift the livery on half-cab vehicles, but sadly most NBC subsidiaries did not avail themselves of this.
While the BVW engine did have some problems with the wet liners, the bottom end was just about bomb-proof, and West Yorkshire’s examples achieved some amazing mileages between overhauls. Head gasket failures were not uncommon at one time, but much of the problem was felt to be due to the infamous CBC ‘heating’ system and its airlock-inducing pipework, rather than the engine itself. It is surely no coincidence that as WY steadily converted many of its later CBC Lodekka ‘steamers’ to conventional radiator and heater layout, the boiling and head gasket problems seemed to decrease.
As for Lodekka engine sounds - the induction roar of the AVW, the somewhat more powerful sound of the BVW, the ‘staccato’ bark of the 5-pot Gardner, the purposeful growl of the 6-cylinder Gardner (LW and LX) - I love ’em all!

Brendan Smith

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23/05/13 - 10:12

…..but the music of the "pre-war" whine is part of the attraction of the Regent V. [Posted by a professional musician!]

David Oldfield

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23/05/13 - 10:13

I’m glad this picture is generating such positive responses especially as I took it on the move from another vehicle. It’s very pleasing when someone says they could look at it all day. You start to see buildings etc you hadn’t previously noted.
I don’t generally argue about comments as I know next to nothing about buses. I have to confirm the date as 8th May though - it’s on the picture generated by the camera and I attach a calendar for May 2011.
I’ve now been to four of these Potteries Rallies and two at Hanley all organised by POPS. I’ve just donated all the pictures I’ve taken from all these events to their group

Ken Jones

The 8th of May 2011 was a Sunday the 18th was a Wednesday.

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23/05/13 - 16:12

David O, I respect your professional musical knowledge, but with regard to the Regent V, I confess that I always felt cheated. My first experience of the type was with the Nottingham variety that appeared about 1956, and although the sound was quite nice, it always seemed to me a cheap and jazzed up imitation of the real pre- and post-war sliding mesh gearbox Regent sound. I am afraid that familiarity bred contempt for the homely soothing pre-selector Regent, that seemed almost universal in NCT at that time.

Stephen Ford

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24/05/13 - 15:14

David, I must point out I had high regard for TD1s. Our local company at the time, Chieftain Buses of Hamilton had several second-hand examples in my schooldays.
One of them, which would have qualified for the Ugly Bus page, with a UF registration, so presumably came from Brighton, had the smoothest ride of any bus I have ever ridden on - including modern coaches.

Jim Hepburn

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26/05/13 - 07:47

This year I had the opportunity to photograph the vehicle to the rear. It’s heading for the Potteries Rally and I took this shot from JFJ 873.

Ken Jones

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27/05/13 - 06:55

On the subject of bus music, I am suffering from Regent V deficiency at the moment. I expect I’ve got a recording of one somewhere, but I don’t think my wife would have appreciated that with her lunch, so I had to make do with Sibelius 5 (the last movement has a certain similarity!).
I must confess, though, that I prefer the sound of a Gardner engine, and it is a source of frustration that, during the brief period when AEC offered them, there never were any D3RV6Gs to go with Glasgow’s D2RV6Gs and the D2RA6Gs at Rochdale and Aberdeen. Not only has this deprived me of what would have been an interesting array of sound effects, but it also deprived the world of a double decker with a Gardner engine and a synchromesh gearbox that worked properly - something which I would have thought highly desirable.

Peter Williamson

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27/05/13 - 09:01

On the subject of musical parallels with the bus world, I suppose the nearest equivalent to a trolleybus would be John Cage’s ‘4 mins 33 secs’. I yearn for the day when Radio Three’s ‘Building a Library’ undertakes a comparative evaluation of this piece.

Roger Cox

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28/05/13 - 07:38

I recall going to a concert in Bristol many years ago when this piece was played. It was a very ragged performance, I assume because the orchestra was under-rehearsed!

Chris Hebbron

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28/05/13 - 11:01

You’ve just given me an idea, Roger. I will do an arrangement of the Cage for organ and include it in my next recital.
The music of the pre-selector is a distinctly different, and none the worse, experience from the syncro "whine" - both are equally valid. I would point out the gear-box rather than the engine is the most critical instrument (just as the building is rather the THE instrument in the Cage).
Ken. You’ve just proved how attractive the back end of a bus can be.

David Oldfield

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28/05/13 - 17:00

That reminds me of a Sketch from the radio comedy programme "Take It From Here" many years ago about Cleopatra:-
….And truly men call her Desire.
Because she is so beautiful? No. from the back she looks like a street-car!

Jim Hepburn

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04/06/13 - 06:57

A belated apology to Ken Jones! I was talking about the 2013 rally date rather than 2011 and should have read Ken’s text more carefully. The Lodekka attended both rallies.
The photo I sent in of the three buses owned by the Emerton Brothers was taken at this year’s rally.

Berwyn Prys Jones

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05/07/13 - 06:07

For those of you who like timeless views of Crosville vehicles in preservtion may I suggest you pay my flickr pages a visit? You may have to soft-focus on a few modern vehicles and signs on some of them but there should be enough "uncontaminated" views there to make it worth your while.
Five photo excursions rounded up here:
LH visiting Wrexham-Ruthin-Denbigh-Llanrwst
www.flickr.com/photos/crisparmour/sets/1  
Busway RE revisits old haunts
www.flickr.com/photos/crisparmour/sets/2  
Dual door RE in Gwynedd
www.flickr.com/photos/crisparmour/sets/3  
D94 revisited with DP RE
www.flickr.com/photos/crisparmour/sets/4  
LH in Snowdonia
www.flickr.com/photos/crisparmour/sets/5

crisparmour

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19/07/13 - 08:52

Growing up in 1960s Bournemouth the sight and sound of a Hants&Dorset Lodekka ascending Commercial Road has stayed with me over the years. The FS6G type (as pictured here) seemed a very business-like no-nonsense bus, perfect for the country roads which made up a lot of their routes. I did many trips to Fordingbridge on those as a passenger, and appreciated their rugged if somewhat spartan accommodation. Their appearance was perfectly balanced and probably the finest of all the Bristol buses IMHO.
In comparison, the local BCT buses seemed rather lady-like!

Grahame Arnold

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Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

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03/09/14 - 07:17

Seeing the photo of DFG 157 which was based at Wrexham brought back old memories of the 1960’s where I was employed as a driver. I remember taking her over on the D1 stand on her first day in service going to Llangollen then back through Wrexham bus station to Chester and return on the D1 route. What a difference to the DLG and DLB’s previously on the D1 service.
My favourite bus in the Wrexham depot was SLG 144. This single decker had fantastic pulling power and when I was on a route with hills and it was parked up at the bus station I used to ‘swop’ it over with the one I was due to take over. When the engine was ticking over it had a strong sounding diesel ‘knock’. I also remember I got the knack of going through the gear box from 2nd to 5th without the use of the clutch using the speedometer and engine revs. Great days and in the years I was at Wrexham I never had one mechanical breakdown. SLA 42 had the side taken out of her when I was at a bus stop on Derby road when a council snow plough slid down the hill and rolled the aluminium side of it like a tin opener. Myself and conductor picked it up and put it in the bus and took it with us on a colliery run! Some years later on a school run from Mild to Treuddyn via Cymau SLG 138 went on fire under the bonnet. I emptied the fire extinguisher into the engine bay through a large hole in the side about six inches diameter and it went out. The engine restarted and we carried on to Treuddyn. Running back light to Wrexham it went on fire again and luckily a service bus came along and we had his extinguisher to put it out. We later discovered some rags had been left in the engine bay and had fallen onto the exhaust manifold. Next day I had old SLG 138 again on Pentre/Moss/Tanyfron/Brymbo. Tough old buses Crosville had.

Brian Wright

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03/09/14 - 18:00

Thx for re-living your experiences with us, Brian, a part of history always worth recording for others to enjoy. Snow plough, eh? Bet you never dreamt that that would happen to you!

Chris Hebbron

Copyright David Humphrey

Crosville Motor Services
1952
Bristol LL6B
ECW B39RD

Here is a photo of SLB 290, Crosville’s last half-cab single decker. It is a 1952 Bristol LL6B with B39RD bodywork. It is pictured at central works, Chester in the summer of 1970 shortly after its withdrawal from service.
It was latterly allocated to Chester depot, spending its last days mostly operating routes C6/7, Chester to Ellesmere Port via the villages of Stoak and Stanney and a short working within Ellesmere Port (the route inevitably referred by crews as the "stroke your fanny").
I got to drive it a few times in service, and compared to the later underfloor engined single deckers, LSs and MWs, it was like driving a sports car, super bus to drive.
Just after I uploaded the photo, I discovered that the "new" Crosville, based in Weston-Super Mare, has acquired SLB 290, and have started to restore it.  They also have another photo of the bus from when it was in service, parked on the Chester depot "overspill" parking area at Chester Northgate rail station. See their website ‘News’ page, or their Facebook site.

Photograph and Copy contributed by David Humphrey

A full list of Bristol codes can be seen here.

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09/06/12 - 12:13

A lovely posting, David, of a true icon. The L series represents the utter pinnacle of front-engined single deck design and the ECW body was very handsome. Fitted with the Bristol engine and the ‘supertop’ gear, they went, as you say, very well indeed.
For me the only issue with SLB 290 is the altered destination indicator, which looks a bit unbalanced and clumsy. All indicator blinds involve a compromise of one sort or another; ECW’s standard early post-war two part indicators gave room for detailed intermediate destination points alongside the route number, but required long blinds that were not economical when routes with different numbers covered the same intermediate points, (e.g. service 4 and 4A in York). The later, three part box overcame this problem but involved five separate blinds and a fiddly little gear, (especially when worn), to switch between the three number blinds. Slow and occasionally complicated to alter. Eventually, of course, came the omission of intermediate points altogether in the ‘T’ form indicator. Cheaper and less complicated, of course, but less informative, too.
None of this alters the fact that Bristol Ls were superb, as your posting so excellently reminds us. Glad SLB 290 has been preserved.

Roy Burke

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21/01/13 - 17:16

Great to see a photo of SLB 290 in service (just). I work as a part time heritage driver for the aforementioned Crosville of Weston-super-Mare and can confirm that the restoration is coming along nicely. They hope that this lovely vehicle will join 2 other genuine Crosville Bristol Ls in the private hire fleet.
I can’t wait to drive it - I love the 6-cylinder engine/gearbox combination!
David, could I ask your permission to use this photo on my blog? I will credit you of course. I write about my driving experiences quite often and I’m looking forward to the day when SLB 290 is the subject of my posting! At the moment I’m just writing about its restoration. See my blog at the link below busmanjohn.wordpress.com

Busman John