Nottingham Trolleybuses - The Last Years

Nottingham Trolleybuses - The Last Years

The life and times of the Nottingham trolleybus system have been well documented and photographed over the years and my contribution is as an interested observer in the mid-sixties.

My earliest involvement with these vehicles was from familiarity in the early 50s, when my grandparents lived in Ingram Rd, Bulwell, their house backed on to Bulwell depot and walks round the block and rides into town made these vehicles like old friends. A lasting memory which I can summon up still was the distinctive interior smell (stale electricity downstairs, (yeah, right): stale fag smoke upstairs. The staple diet of the time was the large batch of 7' 6in wide BUTs that Bulwell housed, I am just old enough to remember a few more venerable vehicles, like the ones which had a route number box between the upper deck front windows. Four-wheelers would be seen at Basford, where the then 36/48 terminus came beyond the ring road to turn near Basford Vernon station, adjacent to the 42/43/44 main drag. I had an elderly uncle (grandma's brother) who lived further up Nottingham Road and the occasional visit there involved a change on to a four-wheeler, including a definite memory of a Utility with slatted wooden seats. How exotic I thought, but not quite as exotic as the Notts & Derbys handsome blue vehicles that came by Uncle Horace's front garden on the long Ripley route.

During most of my schooldays I lived at Clifton, well away from overhead wires and while I developed a lasting love of railways during this time, a residual interest in buses remained, revived when my folks moved to Sneinton in 1965 close to the main depot. Just as my camera and I were chasing the ever dwindling fleet of steam locos on British Rail, I became aware of a parallel extinction of that other staple of my younger days, THE TROLLEY BUS. I did not shout about my particular secret pleasure in the fascination with these vehicles, along with the train-set type trackwork-in-the-sky, and set about trying to record a disappearing facet of the Nottingham scene.

I was also enthralled by "folk legends/urban myths" of high-speed exploits in the wrong places resulting in spectacular damage to the precious overhead. Such stories, even if only partly true cannot have endeared Trolleys to the expense-conscious management and delay- sensitive travellers. I will share two of these stories: one, a sequence of passages of Theatre Square eastbound, just a little faster each time, until the offending bus got trapped under a cobweb of pulled down wiring, and two, reputedly 8-footer 511 speeding westwards on a route 39 off Carlton Rd top, its right-hand side pole losing contact with the overhead and still travelling very fast downhill, the flaying pole neatly slicing through quite a few span-wires. Interesting mental images - does anyone know anything real about these?

Anyway, in 1965 the destruction proceeded. The route 43 conversion resulted in the extinction of all the four-wheelers (except one, 460, which had a very short charmed stay of execution as a trainer), and the first cull of six-wheelers, apart from accident victims. I was at Pennyfoot St yard on the last night of the 44s at the end of May - after the end of the evening peak, all the to-be condemned vehicles were re-routed down past the Ice Stadium and round Pennyfoot St to report to the man with a list at the gate. Some drivers were told "no, not this one, continue round" but most had their poles pulled down, the bamboos chucked to one side, and they reversed into the yard as their last movement under NCT ownership, to await the inevitable tow away to oblivion. It was a gloomy evening in mood and lighting conditions, and I have no really passable shots. During that summer, I made it my business to travel on 39s and 40/47s when I could to savour the moments, but the growing collection of new Atlanteans, Fleetlines and Renowns presaged to me what was the next BIG one, the end of the 39s.

Actually, the 43/44 routes were I think THE big one, working on a very high frequency north/south axis, But the 38/39 on an east/west route with the big 8' wide vehicles was a close next best, and it was all that was left in this league. I did ride it on the last day, and stayed up to see the last one come in from Carlton to terminate at the depot after midnight. Strangely, the 38 reverted to mainly electric working for some weeks, but it just wasn't the same.

The need for many extra vehicles for the annual Goose Fair resulted in the 40/47s surviving a week or so longer until the end of the Goose Fair weekend, (and perhaps this was how some were able to still perform on the 38/39s) but then a number of OTV Regent IIIs were released to take over. The last of the 7' 6in vehicles were retired at that time. This just left the 36/37 with electric power, and the number of surviving vehicles dwindled. One would have thought that they could have been picked off quite easily given what seemed to be the political will of the time. Whatever, three trolleys in good condition (518/20/24) were stored under cover at the far end of the No2 depot and the others soldiered on in dwindling numbers. Of these I never saw the class pioneer, 500 actually in service. It was usually somewhere about the depot, not always in the same spot, so it did get moved about, but I never saw it working myself - did anyone else? The three stored examples got a final lease of life, replacing others that fell by the wayside, and 506 was set aside for glamming-up for the Last-day ceremonials.

And then, it was all over.

I hope you like the (OK, not that varied) selection of pictures from my collection, and with apologies to Goffin/King, and The Byrds, and Dusty:

A little bit of wiring.....    is all we lack.....

So join me if you can,    WE'RE GOIN' BACK........

Rob Hancock
04/2013

 

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12/04/13 - 15:52

I never rode on a Nottingham Trolleybus but I did see them on a number of visits and the superb set of photos gives a great flavour of a time long gone.
The shot of the ceiling of 510 can truly be said to show a "home made" finish, given the proximity of a certain cigarette manufacturer and the very inventive use of the overhead to pass roadworks is indicative of a time when getting the job done was more important than rigidly sticking to the rule book. A great piece Rob.

Phil Blinkhorn

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I have little knowledge of trolleybuses in fact non at all really but in the first picture one trolleybus is overtaking another. Looking at the other shots on Robs fascinating gallery it is fairly obvious that there wasn't two sets of wires in both directions throughout the whole system. So, am I correct in thinking that two sets of wires are only at bus stops to enable over taking? If I am correct how did the poles know to go on the overtaking wires and not follow on the same wires of the bus it is about to overtake? Hope that makes sense.

Trevor Knowles

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12/04/13 - 17:38

(response to Trevor Knowles)
Thanks for your comments. Perhaps I should have put a caption on to the first picture. It is of a 8ft wide bus running through from Kildare Rd overtaking a 7ft6 sister which has just turned on the Ransom Rd circle partially visible behind, and is now waiting in the layby for just this sort of traffic event. By this time, blinds always showed 40 Wilford Rd for southbound trips, the 40/47 differential only applied to northbound runs. This was the last day of trolleys on these routes, after this, only a small batch of 8 footers remained for the 36/37 route.
Quite right that quad-track was not provided, only passing loops like here. The equivalent of railway "points" in the trackwork ("frogs" in trolley talk) were operated manually by pulling on a spring-loaded cable, or power-operated by the driver, which required power on/handbrake on at a specific location, activation confirmed by a roadside signal.
Perhaps a more knowledgeable contributor could give a fuller description, with the science? You can see both types in active demonstration use at Sandtoft, but perhaps science could have developed subsequently to operate frogs purely by power of thought by the driver. Now that could have so many other uses, eh?

Rob Hancock

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12/04/13 - 17:39

What an excellent record of a lost age. Very pleased too to see an interior shot - though sad that by this time most if not all of the trolleybuses had lost the fluted square "jellymould" lamp covers.
Trevor, twin sets of wires were only provided at certain strategic points. The top picture shows the St Anns Well Road/Ransom Road stop where the short working route 47 terminated (it also happened to be the limit of earlier tram operation). So a 40 coming from the outer terminus at Kildare Road might expect to find a terminating 47 laying over at this point, and a passing loop was provided.
As for points setting, I believe there were two types - manual and powered. In both cases the points would always revert to a known "normal" position. To take the alternative route, the manual version required the conductor to alight and pull a handle on one of the support posts while the poles passed through. In the case of the powered type the points would be set according to whether the bus approached under power or coasting. Bearing in mind that the driver was about a bus length ahead of the collector heads, this needed careful planning. Even then a car cutting in, causing the drive to brake at the crucial moment when he needed to power through a junction could cause a dewirement. Driving trolleybuses in heavy traffic was not child's play.
My recollection of the 39 is that the crews certainly made the best use of gravity on downhill slopes of Carlton Road - both eastbound and westbound the pace was furious!

Stephen Ford

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13/04/13 - 07:50

A very interesting and atmospheric collection! Thank you for posting. The method of bypassing the roadworks is certainly 'non standard' but it reminds me of an instance where one authority had told one of my bus shelter suppliers "You can't do that!" in respect of his answer to a particular teaser. The problem was that he had done! He took them to look at it and showed me photographs.

Pete Davies

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13/04/13 - 07:51

There used to be in Parliament Street Depot in the section that housed the trolleybuses (bays one to five - number three depot.)a notice that said 'The driver of the Railless taking the curve must take power'. I presume this referred to the operation of power frogs. It was taken down at the time of the last trolleybuses in June 1966 and was propped again a wall. Many trolleybus souvenirs, such as destination blinds and stop plates, were being sold by NCT on the day of the display of the remaining trolleybuses in Parliament Street Depot on Saturday 2 July 1966, maybe this was the fate of this sign. On another note some of my older work colleagues still referred to the bays in this part of Parliament Street Depot as trolley one etc. This was several years after trolleybuses had departed. At the time of the final trolleybus abandonment, the bay known as 'five right' at Parliament Street Depot was the depository for failed Atlanteans that had been towed in. On a bad day (for Atlanteans that is)there could be four or five awaiting attention.
The 'headlong plunge' along Carlton Road inwards to the City referred to by Stephen was always spoilt by the need to stop at Alma Road 'clock' - the time recorder at which all 38/39s had to observe. Further along the 39, on Ilkeston Road, a similar 'headlong plunge' was spoilt by the traffic lights at Radford Boulevard turning red. In the reverse direction - inwards to to the City from Wollaton Park there was a feeder immediately prior to the Radford Boulevard lights. Now, drivers were supposed to coast with power off under feeders, but I never saw this at this location, unless the lights were red. The electric blue flash resulting a trolleybus going through the Radford Boulevard feeder whilst taking power was spectacular, particularly so at night.

Michael Elliott

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13/04/13 - 12:34

Wonderfully evocative pics- you can hear the hisses and clicks: but one slightly sour question: why do they look so beat up? Was it the last days & everyone had given up? Dents in the centre front domes (why) & filthy rear domes. Must be tricky taking a trolley through a wash!!

Joe

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14/04/13 - 08:16

The upstairs, interior view brings back unpleasant memories of those non-smokers forced to endure the smoke-laden, choking atmosphere, especially on a wet day, when all the windows were shut. And those brown-stained cream ceilings - ugh! I'm amazed that such a large city had such uninformative blinds, not even showing route numbers in some cases. Definitely stranger-hostile!
This is a wonderful collection of photos, so many of them rear views, too! Six-wheeled trolleybuses were always impressive and these were no exception. Very evocative - grateful for the posting or them.

Chris Hebbron

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14/04/13 - 08:21

Thank you, Old-Bus-Photos.co.uk for giving me the space to share some of my old photos. I have enjoyed the responses, and thank those who have taken the trouble to send them, but having had another look back through my gallery, would like to add some other comments of my own:
The broadside shot of 520 starting the turning procedure at Nottingham Rd/Valley Rd 36 terminus gives a glimpse of more wiring going way into the distance - this was used by the 41 route to Cinderhill. This was operated by NCT to the city boundary from the time that Notts & Derby abandoned their trolley route to Ripley. I remember that after various abandonments, sections of wiring were retained, I understand for technical/electrical reasons - can anyone explain the science with this?
I also remember that all NCTs six-wheelers had their weight details shown as 9.19.3, this was suspiciously close to 10 tons, but just under. I wonder if this was "massaged" to fit in with some trigger level for tax or other purposes - someone at Sandtoft admitted to me that 506 was weighed without its batteries and came out at nearer (daren't say), but well into double figures of tons!!
Not expecting my transparencies to be publicly shown 45-odd years later, they were stored in glass mounts, and this has resulted in some "Newtons Rings" effects, and some fungus attack, sorry about that.
My interior view of 510 seems to have been popular -
I do have a mental image memory of a repaint with a brilliant white interior ceiling. If cig smoke can do this to industrial paint, then what must it do to your lungs - motivation to have another go at giving up, eh?

Rob

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15/04/13 - 07:37

One technical reason, Rob, for keeping unused sections of overhead wiring might be where a power supply feed came in close to a still-used section.

Chris Hebbron

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15/04/13 - 07:38

Rob - I managed a couple of brief visits to Nottingham while just the 36 was still running. On the first of these, in October 1965, I do have a shot of 500 approaching the Futurist, so it clearly did get out from time to time, and not just on Haydn Road shorts.

Alan Murray-Rust

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15/04/13 - 07:39

Chris H, on reflection I think you are right about the uninformative destination blinds. I think the one piece displays came in during the war, and persisted until the arrival of the Regent Vs in 1956. I guess that repeating the city centre destination for each route number might have made a very heavy and unwieldy blind (at least on motorbuses) and therefore the device CITY (without a number) was used for all inward services. Most of the trolleybus routes were actually cross-city, and therefore at least had two "proper" destinations. I list these below, as far as I can remember/ ascertain. It will be noted that routes 37, 38, 42, 46 and 47 were all short workings, some of which only ran at peak periods :
36 Nottingham Road / via Mansfield Road
(Earlier 36 Nottingham Road / Vernon Road
37 Haydn Road
38 Carlton / Hooton Road
39 Carlton / Post Office Sq.
39 Wollaton Park / via Ilkeston Road
40 Wells Road / Kildare Road
40 Wilford Road
41 Cinderhill
41 Trent Bridge
42 Basford / Northern Baths
43 Bulwell / Market
43 Trent Bridge / via Arkwright Street
44 Bulwell Hall / Estate
44 Colwick Road
45 Trent Bridge / via London Road
45 Wollaton Park / via Derby Road
46 Trent Bridge
47 Wells Road / Ransom Road
47 Wilford Road
(Earlier 48 Trent Bridge)
(Earlier 48 Nottingham Road)

Stephen Ford

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15/04/13 - 07:40

All Nottingham's six wheel BUT trolleybuses, whether 'eight footers' or not, carried the same unladen weight. The reason for this was that there was a gross laden weight limit (bus + crew and passengers - including standees) at that time and to maintain the seating capacity at 70 (38 up and 32 down)the unladen weight had to be 'massaged down'. To aid this the rear chassis extension was removed and the platform supported by the rear end of the body. But this still wasn't enough hence the 'economical with the truth' unladen weight. Manchester's post war six wheel Crossley trolleybuses had a seating capacity of 66 (36 up and 30 down)and displayed an unladen weight in excess of ten tons.
The rear domes of Nottingham's trolleybuses suffered from the depositing of grease from the trolleyheads. A graphite grease was used to lubricate the trolleyheads,which had to swivel to maintain contact with the overhead. As to the dents in the front domes, some said it was down to maintenance staff jumping from one bus to another when checking the trolley booms and trolley springs. Others that it was due to running into the trolleyheads of a bus in front with its booms hooked down. I don't know which is right, or whether there was some other reason.

Michael Elliott

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18/04/13 - 07:28

Stephen,
I had a Nottingham trolleybus blind (from a Bulwell BUT - judging by the wear of the Bulwell destinations) that I subsequently gave to the owner of trolleybus 578 for use in its restoration. I remember that the blind I had had a display 49 Carlton/Manor Road (a planned but not constructed extension of the 39 in Carlton). It had no display for 47 Wilford Bridge, as 47s going to Wilford Bridge displayed 40 Wilford Bridge (although I understand that some of the utility trolleybuses did have a 47 Wilford Bridge display). Another display it had was Basford/Eland Street (this was the turning circle opposite the gasworks on Radford Road)and right at the end of the blind 'Postal'. Postal was in red on a black background and reflected the pre-war practice of a journey to the City in the evening carrying a posting box for letters. The practice was not resumed post-war.

Michael Elliott

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18/04/13 - 08:44

After reading comments submitted by others I have selected these two following shots.

The first one shows 511 outside Nottingham Victoria Station in summer 1966. At that time, and for a only a short while beyond, Nottingham could host trolleybuses AND steam trains, and some of the trains ran all the way to London. Bournemouth could make the same claim, but anywhere else? This shot gives a bit of roof detail, in particular the muck splattered down from the trolleyheads on to the rear dome and upper rear, although the lower sides are a bit scruffy too. The "dimple" in the front dome is not visible here, but my opinion would be that these indentations were more likely to be caused by staff jumping from the roof of one vehicle to the next, rather than being poked by hitched-down poles on a bus in front - I don't think they were held low enough for that. Also, you can see the wire device either side of the rear dome that would protect roof panels from bouncing poles, or ones that were being pulled down a bit too energetically.

The other shot is the "before" view of the scene in my title picture - 535 has just turned on the 47 Ransom Rd turning circle and waits in the layby for 514 to come from the Kildare Rd terminus (just out of sight in the far distance) and get ahead. The people in the know are waiting for the overtaking vehicle at the stop which is imminently (like the next day) to change from being a (green) "Trolleybus Fare Stage" to a yellow "Motorbus Compulsory Stop, Stage Point 23".

To me, this still seems like only yesterday, but this area, along St Anns Well Road has changed totally out of all recognition and I should accept that I was lucky to have captured an image that contains so much detail of what really now is a different age.

Rob Hancock

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09/05/13 - 07:53

Rob - what a superb set of photographs; they have stirred many memories. These were the vehicles that stimulated my interest in buses generally, as we lived in Bulwell, and used the 43/4 to and from town. I also passed Bulwell depot on my way to and from junior school - it wasn't the shortest route, but was definitely the most interesting, with Mackemsons on the other side of Piccadilly. The question of the unladen weight of these BUTs always intrigued me too; as usual there is a logical, but not necessarily legal,answer!
The interior shot of 510 reminded me of the last night of trolley bus operation, 522 was the last service bus on the 36, followed by 510 on an enthusiasts special which I was on.
On the subject of destinations, does anyone know what was shown by trolleys turning short at Peveril Street, on Alfreton Road?

Bob Gell

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10/05/13 - 06:38

The turning circle at Alfreton Road/Peveril Street was interesting in that it was arranged to turn trolleys approaching from Bulwell rather than the city like all the other 'short working' turning circles (Basford, Northern Baths; Basford, Eland Street; Derby Road, Gregory Street; Nottingham Road,Haydn Road; Wells Road,Ransom Road; London Road, Cattle Market Road and the sole reverser - Carlton Hill, Hooton Road). Its purpose was turn trolleys serving the Player's factory on Alfreton Road. I guess that on journeys to Bulwell the destinations - 43 Bulwell Market and 44 Bulwell Hall Estate would be used. From the turning circle at Derby Road/Gregory Street (used for extras serving the adjacent Raleigh Cycle Works)there was at least one extra that displayed 47 Wells Road/Ransom Road. By the end of the 1950s many of the extras worked by trolleybuses had been discontinued or converted to motorbus operation and the turning circles other than those used by regular short workings - i.e. 37/38/42/47 were largely disused.

Michael Elliott

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12/05/13 - 10:11

For most of my early years I lived at the top of Carlton Hill just off the 38/39 route and remember careering down the hill into town! One trolley crashed into an overhead support post near to the pub (Manvers Arms?) and was said to have been doing over 60mph cown the hill. On the subject of overhead forks, I may be teaching you technos to suck eggs, but I think I was told about going over a sensor, before the fork, on 2 notches or clicks on the accelerator pedal. Also my grandmother used to call them trackless'. Great photos thanks for the memories.

Max Starbuck

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16/05/13 - 08:30

I have been delighted with the responses to my Gallery pictures of Nottingham Trolleybuses, and would like to trickle out a couple or so more:

Firstly, here is 521 churning up the tarmac at the 40 turning circle on the last day of the 40/47
route in October 1965. Until about six months previously, this was the preserve of four-wheelers,
and it was a tight fit for six-wheelers, let alone eight-foot wide versions like this.

                                               The second pic is the 'after' view of my earlier shot at the 36 terminus after 516`s crew had used
                                               the other-side wires/reverse to drive round the road works, here putting things back together.

The third view is of 507 coming down Sherwood Rise under the tramway style bracket wiring
supports on a lovely sunny Sunday morning only a few weeks before the end.

Rob Hancock

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16/05/13 - 11:23

The first of your latest photo post, Rob, reminds me that you never hear 'tyre scrub' any more on six-wheelers. The rear axle steering on tri-axle vehicles avoids this. London's six-wheelers and LT's meant that you heard the sound aplenty. It's not fair!

Chris Hebbron

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16/05/13 - 13:56

But, Chris the first thing I thought when seeing this latest pic is that the rear wheels seem to be steering... or a trick of the light?

Joe

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17/05/13 - 07:13

521 turning at the 40 terminus - yes, it does look like the rear wheels are steering, but I suspect it is the result of stressing on the tight turn. However, does anyone remember the Beastmarket Hill departure point for 42/43s where the road surface looked like ploughed furrows - the tracklesses had created their own tracks!

Rob Hancock

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17/05/13 - 18:19

Well, Beastmarket Hill WAS a hill - though not all that steep; it was a compulsory stop with time clock there; and the 43s were scheduled at every 2-3 minutes for most of the day. So you're probably talking about 300-350 brisk uphill starts every day from exactly the same point. Every one of those would give the tarmac a hefty kick on starting as traction was laid down.

Stephen Ford

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19/05/13 - 11:35

I came to your site through the Nottstalgia website where I had been posting in the forum on the above topic.
Great site, well done and thanks for sharing.
It seems you're very much interested in the hardware side and while I love anything to do with transport of yesteryears I'm particularly interested in digging out anything that regards my Mum who was the conductress of the last public service trolley bus in Nottingham.
I reckon so many photographs have been taken of trolley buses judging from what has cropped up in recent times thanks to people like you that at least one ought to - by accident - include the crew. I only have a few photographs of my Mum and none in uniform or connected in any way with her job. I wonder if you might have anything that would move me to tears as one post in the Nottstalgia forum did. I wouldn't have anything to offer in return except gratitude.

Robert

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20/05/13 - 07:30

From one Robert to another; thanks for your comments. Whilst I would love to be able to provide the picture you would treasure, I just do not think I have such amongst my collection.
Whatever, I promise I will have another careful look to see if there just might be something there ..

Rob Hancock

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29/05/13 - 09:06

Robert, I have found a picture that features crew activity, where a lady conductor assists her driver with the awkward reverse turn at the 20 terminus. Since this is after the trolley era, and where twin wires never went, I think it perhaps more appropriate to put it with my Best Bits - Nottingham Area Bus Photos.
Maybe it was someone you knew, even if, as I suspect, it is not your mum.
Hope somebody finds that magical shot you are seeking.

Rob Hancock

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16/10/13 - 06:56

Hi great to see the Nottm trolley photos especially the one outside "The Vic" My memories of Nottm Trolleys was travelling to Bulwell on the 43 route from Nottm centre. The stop we alighted at outbound was Henrietta St op the Highbury Hotel, and return from the Cantrell Rd bus stop. After 40 years of collecting Nottm and Derby trolley shots I have yet to find any pics taken at these stops and wondered if you knew of the existence of any.? Remember the smelly gasworks at Basford and the lovely sounding Isandula and Zulu roads around there also Northern bridge adj to Basford North Station which was on the Friargate Line to Derby.

Gerald Anthony

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28/10/13 - 06:57

In response to Gerald Anthony, I know this is going a bit off-piste for a bus-site, but yes, I well remember the Northern Bridge where the ex-GN Derby Friargate line crossed over the Bulwell trolley routes at Basford North station - here is that station after the last train but before total destruction took place. My early recollections of this location centred on the lines of non-corridor coaches parked in sidings very visible from the 43 route that took me to grandma's. Along the way, I also remember fascination with the exotic street-name of Isandula Road, which got shouted out by conductors when approaching the stop of that name. This was in the smelly area of the gasworks, but no, I never got round to taking pictures in this location, more additions to the endless lists of "why didn't you" or "what ifs?" which I am sure we all have.
Thanks for your interest.

Rob Hancock

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02/02/14 - 07:30

What memories the pics of the trolleys stirred up! I was born in 1945 Ashwell Street Hyson Green. We used the trolleys all the time. To Trent Bridge, Bulwell lido and Colwick just everywhere. A bus stop was at the top of our street outside Smeetons butchers and Millers pork butchers. I used to watch the men with those long poles push and pull onto the wires. I am not sure when the motor buses began but we used those just as much, no cars, just buses. To show off, you could stand on the platform and drop off the bus before it actually stopped. The fellas were experts at this so we copied. I fell flat on my face one day and never attempted it again....oh the humiliation! Thanks for the memories of the trolleys. It's all come back to me, a Nottingham exile living in Somerset.

Joan nee Thompson Pinder

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12/08/14 - 08:50

Hello, again, not been in touch for a while, but had a smashing day out at Sandtoft recently when they held a Nottingham Running Day. I fired off lots of shots and took plenty of video, but here are just a few stills from my haul from the day.
The presentation of 506 was just superb, but then it doesn't get the sort of daily heavy use that it and its sisters got 50 years ago.

Rob Hancock

 

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