Samuel Ledgard - Some Truly Amazing Revivals

When vehicles were withdrawn from service it was almost invariably a permanent situation brought about by age, condition, or some very serious and expensive defect for which the repairs would not be economically acceptable. In very rare cases this misfortune occurred far earlier than would normally be expected and usually meant the premature end of a vehicle's working career - BUT - there were some fascinating exceptions and here are a just a few which intrigued me greatly.

This Leyland Cheetah lightweight vehicle was one of Mr. G. F. Tate's "Barnaby trio" and was inexplicably placed into store at Otley very shortly after the end of WW2. It languished quietly in the Otley Carriers van depot in Bondgate for many years before very unexpectedly being taken into the depot and fully overhauled and repainted. The Barnaby bodies were somewhat quaint for the mid 1930s but I loved them. They combined very sound construction with "kindly" looks and vintage features like spinning rooftop ventilators and wooden plank ceilings and, in the case of DUB 82, an incredible seating capacity of 39, three passengers at the top of the entrance steps facing backwards !! This fine machine re-entered service lacking the luxury of an offside headlamp or anywhere to put one - the Traffic Commissioners didn't seem to mind - and was a spirited performer on the Otley - Wetherby service where its ascent of Harewood Bank with a 4.7 litre engine was little short of spectacular. Strangely, in its second career, it was never given any fleetnames which really was a shame. Eventually withdrawn permanently on New Year's Eve 1952 it sadly ended its days in the Eller Ghyll scrapyard which was always a very unhappy sight to behold.

What fine machines indeed were the Leyland Tiger TS7/8s, with Sam's own version of the lovely Duple coach bodies with "porch" doorways at the top of the entrance steps - a feature which facilitated their valuable use without modification for stage carriage work in later years. Of the 1938 quartet, for some reason GUA 639 was mothballed soon after the war and spent several years hidden away in the mysterious western end of Ilkley Depot. In a similar manner to the revival of DUB 82 it was suddenly brought back to Otley and received the most comprehensive and thorough overhaul imaginable. All seats were fully reupholstered in that grand blue and cream "leaf" patterned moquette of the time, and the half drop windows were replaced by expertly made sliders. The chassis was of course fully refurbished, and the engine was possibly one of Mr. Johnny Waddington's very finest achievements - he had quite simply the most incredible skill in always rebuilding engines to a standard where they performed magnificently, and GUA 639 quickly became one of Otley Depot's star performers and was supremely comfortable as well. It lasted until September 1957 when its final bus duties on "The Moorfield" were over.

Now here is quite an incredible saga. This Leyland Lion LT5 was part of the acquired B & B Tours fleet and had been fitted from new with a Wilkes and Meade luxurious coach body. It was taken off the road relatively early in its career to rest at Armley depot, until a sensation occurred in November 1953. After parting with its Leyland 5.1 litre engine it received the Gardner 5LW from Daimler UG 7252 - the double decker is believed to have gained this unit in place of its Daimler petrol engine but never ran with the diesel engine. After removal of the Hunslet built coachwork KY 7082 received an ECW rear entrance bus body from East Yorkshire Leyland Tiger DKH 442 and was ready for its amazing debut in disguise - it was to put in almost three years sterling service at Yeadon Depot before final retirement in October 1956

This Daimler CWA6 "utility" vehicle was one of a batch of four allocated to Samuel Ledgard in the dark days of WW2 and had Roe bodywork with more than a slight cheeky resemblance to East Yorkshire's famous "Beverley Bar" design. 916 was the only one of the four at Otley Depot and for reasons long lost in the past was withdrawn very early indeed, but was not banished to any hidden dark premises like others. It spent I should say a good couple of years in the top left corner at the back of the garage, taking up useful working space and becoming progressively sadder and shabbier as the months went by. I hope I shall be taken seriously when I relate that a seed must have blown into the garage roof and established itself in one of the upper deck corner pillars of 916 where it developed into quite a presentable sapling, to everyone's amusement. Apparently a very sudden policy change redeemed the bus and it was then given an extremely thorough complete overhaul and fitted with London Transport "STL" type seats. The paintwork, always immaculately executed by Arthur Mann and Benny, was arguably one of their finest achievements and the immaculate and potent motor became a very firm favourite with us all - it even sported a loud but tuneful repeater bell encased in a tamper proof metal box on the platform. So, after entering service with wooden seats in the sinister very serious atmosphere of 1943, JUA 916 ended its career on the last day of January in 1961 and defied the odds by being in finer condition than when it was new !!

Well, those are just a few of many fascinating and enterprising engineering projects carried out by Ledgard's dedicated and highly skilled craftsmen. There were many other very ambitious alterations to vehicles throughout the Company's existence, but such operations were usually undertaken very promptly and did not involve unduly long absences from service. There was always a surprise around the corner for we enthusiasts among the staff - and perhaps the passengers didn't realise or appreciate that such conscientiousness and imagination was a major factor in the virtually 100% reliable service which we undeniably provided - it has certainly never been matched since - ask anyone!

Chris Youhill
05/2013

Pictures
DUB 82 in Otley Bus Station - C. P. Youhill
GUA 639 on site of present Otley Fire Station in Bondgate - R. F. Mack
KY 7082 at Yeadon Depot - R. F. Mack
JUA 916 my favourite picture of 916 in fine form at Bramhope Church - R. F. Mack

24/05/13 - 15:16

Thank you, again, Chris for another excellent piece on your "old firm". By amazing co-incidence, I was passing the very location of the utility Daimler at Bramhope two days ago and thinking "Wouldn't it be nice to see a Sammy along here again"! Good old "Bob" Mack always seemed to be at the right place at the right time.

Paul Haywood

24/05/13 - 18:13

The idea of reviving seemingly terminally redundant vehicles is characteristic of a good number of independent operators where a combination of getting value for money, inventive use of various previously unrelated components and the skill of some truly excellent engineers and craftsmen tweaked extra years out of vehicles which many larger operators would have sold on or sold for scrap.
Chris's article is unlikely to be repeated in future years by those who are currently in their younger years as we are truly in the age of the throwaway bus.
Mind you in my other interest, aviation, not only are we in the age of the throwaway aircraft but we have the nonsense of genuine spare parts being so expensive that aircraft as young as 4 years old are being broken up for spares by leasing companies when a lease is for some reason terminated and a new lease would not generate as much short term income.

Phil Blinkhorn

25/05/13 - 08:31

As you point out, Chris, most vehicles went from service to the scrap yard. I was aware of Samuel Ledgard, but they were too far South for me, and I knew nothing about them. However, up in this neck of the woods we had OK Motor Services of Bishop Auckland, another independent who were experts at getting a few more years reliable service from cast offs of others.

Ronnie Hoye

25/05/13 - 08:32

Chris, what a fascinating piece of Ledgard history indeed, and thank you for letting us be party to it. Four lovely vehicles full of charm and character - even the poor old 'one-eyed' Cheetah has a certain 'je ne sais quoi'. The Tiger coach looks simply magnificent, and the Daimler/Roe utility looks a treat in that livery style, and no doubt sounded a treat too. The bees knees for me though has to be the mongrel (or whatever the feline equivalent is) Lion, with it's 5-pot Gardner engine conversion and secondhand ECW body. What a handsome beast and looking as it does, ready for action come what may. Just gorgeous!

Brendan Smith

25/05/13 - 17:17

I was a school boy at Otley Grammar School from January 1954 and remember well some of these buses that Chris has described in a wonderful and memorable way. I never knew they were "resurrected" and just loved the Leyland Lion LT5 (KY 7082) which I always regarded as cheeky but was sad not to see the Leyland Cheetah (DUB 82). Thank you Chris for sharing some lovely memories.

Richard Fieldhouse

26/05/13 - 10:28

Some wonderful pictures here and, as you say Paul, good old Bob Mack! Without his enthusiasm for photography in the 50s and 60s, a lot of this visual record would have been lost. I used to go on West Yorkshire Information Service days out and Bob was always there with Colin Wright, taking photos of our progress etc., chasing ahead of us in an A35 van. I’ll have a look in my own Ledgard photos and see if I can post some later.

David Rhodes

27/05/13 - 09:30

Thanks to everyone for your interest in these revivals, of which very few people indeed were actually aware even at the time they took to the road again.

As Paul and David say, our memories would not be the same without dear Bob Mack's comprehensive coverage.

Ronnie, I had the very highest regard for OK Motor Services and their interesting fleet and beautiful livery. One star vehicle which they had brand new was of course of enormous interest to we folks from Leeds - YUP 487 was a Roe bodied Leyland PD3 identical to the large batch of such vehicles in Leeds, although the OK one may have been three pedal synchromesh, anyone remember ??

David, What a small world indeed - I must have travelled with you on some of the superb WYIS tours.

Brendan, Yes the Cheetah had the charm and features of a "bygone age" and it was difficult, even then, to imagine that it was newer than many of SL's Tiger TS7s and Titan TD4s !! Two more poor pictures here which show the other two of the equally delightful "Barnaby trio." The Daimler utility not only sounded great but was a very potent machine indeed, maintaining the busiest schedules with ease. The Lion remained of course a Lion, but simply had a new heart with the Gardner and was a sprightly and characterful gem.

ANW 586 (rear)
Just before Mr. G.F.Tate's demise in 1943, Leyland "Light Lion" ANW 586 waits in Edward Street for the Rawdon stand in Vicar Lane Bus Station to become free - note the delightful Barnaby spinning ventilators on the planked canvas covered roof. The London Transport petrol ST is about to tackle the gruelling journey to Harrogate in the same time as the modern day powerful giants often find difficult. (Photo source WYIS)

BNW 4
A very sad sight indeed - former G.F.Tate recently withdrawn in the depot yard at Yeadon (Moorfield) garage. Partly showing is one of the petrol Leyland Tiger TS2s which like many more, once the glory of coaching had faded, gave valuable and compeetnt service of the Horsforth to Otley bus routes - the bus is still in wartime khaki - the Avro factory where the Lancasters were built is scarcely a mile away !! (Photo R.F.Mack)

Richard, Here is a picture of the Lion when almost new with its original owner B & B Tours before the Ledgard takeover. The luxury bodywork with curtains was by the Leeds firm of Wilks and Meade.

KY 7082
Pictured in its almost new heyday with luxury Wilkes and Mead coachwork in a very pleasant private hire location, curtains neatly opened, in B & B Tours livery. (Photo source WYIS)

Chris Youhill

27/05/13 - 11:25

First things first - what a wonderful collection of "short stories" Chris. I live in West Wales where it has been normal practice for a number of operators, most especially in Pembrokeshire though not exclusively, to leave their withdrawn vehicles to rot in a field adjacent to the depot. Most were perhaps beyond redemption and a few have gone away for posterity. Examples include a certain Sentinel and OFC 205 the Duple bodied Regal currently in supposed "as found" condition in the Oxford Bus Museum. Most though just sit and rot, what a contrast with Chris' story.

Les Dickinson

27/05/13 - 16:47

I think probably one of the most amazing revivals must be the rebodying of ex LT Daimler CWA6 HGF 948 with the Brush C36C body taken from Maudsley SF40 CUB1.
From the photos I have seen it looked a superb vehicle, although I believe the work was actually done by a bodybuilding firm in Bingley.

Eric Bawden

28/05/13 - 07:57

Eric,
It's at this link

Chris Hebbron

28/05/13 - 12:10

HGF 948 in Morley Street Bradford "touting for excursion customers." (Photo R.F.Mack)

Thanks Eric and Les and, yes, The HGF 948 saga was an amazing one which puzzled us all at the time and has done ever since - no doubt the Firm considered the economics of the adventure, but its difficult to see how it added up in view of all the labour involved. The result, as we know, was quite astonishing and produced a useful vehicle although its image didn't belong to the mid 1950s at all. I always thought that the frontal appearance, produced by Rhodes of Bingley, looked remarkably sad and frankly unbalanced and amateur, but there we are.

JUB 649 outside the Woodman in Headingley on the Ilkley - Otley - Leeds service (Photo R.F.Mack)

We mustn't of course forget the other part of the Sutton Daimler, the Park Royal body. This was mounted on the identical CWA6 chassis of Ledgard's own JUB 649 whose Duple body had become unsound very prematurely compared with the rest of the batch which were remarkably long lived. Resident at Armley Head depot from delivery, the "new" JUB 649 was transferred to Otley where it immediately became one of my favourites as it was a fine performer. At the same time it wore one of the many experimental liveries, in my view one of the best, and initially retained the London front destination screens with one of our new larger displays.

Chris Youhill

28/05/13 - 17:36

I've submitted some of my own Ledgard photos taken in the 60s, which I thought Chris Youhill might appreciate and want to comment on. What a small world, Chris,no doubt we were on the same WYIS tours. The first and most memorable one for me was taking DX4 (Gardner engine) to Scarborough for the day, calling at York depot and Scarborough depot as well as parking up on the seafront for a break. Being fresh out of the paint shop after an overhaul, the bus had that lovely freshly painted smell. However, there are no known Bob Mack photos of this trip. I only had 12 shots in my camera, so didn't get a comprehensive coverage. Did you take any photos, Chris?

The other thing I would like to comment on was regarding the khaki colour applied to the buses in wartime. My dad was a reserved occupation because he had to organise getting workers backwards and forwards to factories such as Avro at Yeadon. He used to show me how the waiting buses were hidden in banks of trees and of course a bright coloured livery would have been a dead giveaway. Perhaps Tate's supplied buses for this purpose. Hope this is not becoming too much of a Ledgard-fest!

David Rhodes

Chester Street, Bradford, May 1962, ex-Rochdale.

Ex-Bristol Omnibus K type Chester Street, 1962.

Ex-London RT, Harrogate, 23.8.64.

Bradford Morley Street, Leyland Tiger, 7.9.62.

RTL Chester Street, March 1966. Compare the background with that on GDK. The monolith ruined Chester Street area.

RT at Chester Street, 1963.

Guy LUF Harrogate.

Ex-United K6A, Otley, photo late Tony Peart.

Ex-Bury at Ilkley 5.3.62.

29/05/13 - 06:59

I've just been checking on the 100 Sutton Daimlers. Delivered in 1946, they were all overhauled in 1949 and just over half were again overhauled in 1952, a task so lengthy and expensive this time, that LTE gave up and sold them. HGF 948 (D271)was not one overhauled a second time and this might explain the early demise of the body.

Chris Hebbron

29/05/13 - 07:01

The Bristol K6A in Tony Peart's photo looks as though it had been planned as a K6G: long bonnet and short first bay. Any suggestions out there?
What a wonderfully heartening set of pictures: full use obtained from a fascinating variety of vehicles. Thanks, Chris and David.

Ian Thompson

29/05/13 - 09:57

Correct me if I am wrong Chris, but was it a couple of years ago that the JUB/HGF swap occurred?
What a wealth of wonderful memories come flooding back! I was at Belle Vue School, on Manningham Lane from 1950 to 1956, and we had a small group of transport devotees, mainly interested in WYRC, BCPT, and Leeds trams, but the prevailing Ledgard activity inspired us to form a group which others have since remembered, called SLEDGE. Sammy Ledgard Executors Doyen Group of Enthusiasts. No wonder I failed my History O levels...others too!
Ledgard was the perfect "foil" for other fleets in the total glory days of enthusiasm at that time, and we were very privileged indeed.
Bob Mack was mentioned. He was a real gentleman and well remembered for his approachable attitude from younger enthusiasts, as well as his many other transport "connections" of the day, such as the "Leeds and District Transport News".
Absolutely wonderful days, and thanks for the reminders. The "Beer and Blue Buses" book is well worth the money for any Ledgard converts who may have been inspired by your post!
Perhaps a little TOO much diversity in the final years though....I prefer to remember the 1950s and those wonderful HGFs!
I cannot close without reminding myself, and probably others, of the Butlers scrapyard on Otley Road, just below the "Fox and Hounds" The headaches I have collected from twisted neck syndrome whilst passing the withdrawn Ledgard vehicles therein!

Re the sloping cab windscreen/bonnet on the ex United Bristol.
This was because the body was built originally for the shorter wheel base Leyland TD2, post war rebodying of which was policy among some Tilling Group fleets, necessitating a shorter first bay, and hence, no "slider" within the non standard window dimension.
This body was transferred to a wartime K at a later date, and the TD2 chassis scrapped.

John Whitaker

30/05/13 - 06:00

David - many thanks indeed for this fine selection of interesting views and I can make just a few brief comments on most of them.

KHY 746 - a superb vehicle based at Armley (often loaned to Bradford as here) which, by a fluke, I was lucky enough to drive just once. While operating the first Bradford to Harrogate journey one morning it suffered a front wheel puncture in Otley, was replaced by an Otley bus and repaired, and was therefore given to me for the 08:07 duplicate to Leeds and back - what joy. It ascended the long A660 hill to Bramhope like a refined rocket and, when the disinterested young conductor came to see me in Leeds, he jeered "I don't know what you're getting so excited about - its only a ruddy bus." I just thought to myself "Oh you poor soul."

LYR 918 - a deplorably sloppy destination display by the conductor - always one of my pet hates.

GBU 537 (and GBU 539) Both had their Plaxton bodies removed and scrapped, and their chassis were fully overhauled and altered to PD3 Titan specification, even to the fitting or radiators, bonnets and wings. Sadly in the mid 1960s no bodybuilder was prepared to build double deck forward entrance bodies on them and they ended up being scrapped eventually.

KGU 263 - NOT just any old RTL !! This vehicle had several owners after LT, not least the glorious Silver Star of Porton Down.

GUY 3 - after the acquisition of Kitchin's the bus spent a short while at Bradford depot but sson found itself at Yeadon on the Horsforth to Otley services. I was once asked to collect it from Yeadon and do an excursion to Wetherby Races with it. It had just been recertified and upseated to 42. We had great sport in seeing the passengers' puzzled faces as gears were pre-selected with its full size gear lever an engaged later with the gearchange pedal.

GHN 840 - seen here after overhaul at Otley depot and before being returned to Yeadon. I neevr forgave our superb painters for their all time but only "gaff" in positioning the fleetnames thus, instead of being half way down the panels. Possibly within days of this picture I was rudely arrested while travelling off duty on a bus from Burley in W to Leeds - in front of the holiday crowds I was ordered off the bus and accused of having STOLEN GHN 840 from the very spot in the picture the previous afternoon. The Police were acting on malicious information form a work "mate" - I was never told his name but I know who it was. The real thief was arrested six months later but that's another story. GHN 840 ended up semi overturned in a rural field after a four hour joy ride all over the area and was moderately damaged.

EN 8408 - a wartime Daimler CWA6 rebodied in Roe's super quality, with Bury specification high quality brown leather seats throughout. A veritable powerful "flyer" and lovely to drive and ride on, but why oh why wasn't the destination display altered.

I'm afraid I wasn't on the Scarborough trip, although I've conducted DX4 a good few times as it was often loaned to Ilkley if we needed one. You may be surprised to hear that a new model firm called "B - T" have made a very impressive model of the very bus !!

Chris H - A little confusion here maybe ?? It was the original Duple body on JUB 649 which failed prematurely - I can't recall any trouble with HGF 948 although perhaps it needed a lot of attention after removal from the London chassis. The Park Royal one which really caused trouble was that on HGF 940, which caused the vehicle's withdrawal in under four years - the first Sutton HGF to go.

John W - Oh if only I'd known of SLEDGE at the time I'd have joined of course. the mention of the Eller Ghyll scrapyard makes me weep to this day. Well, as for too much diversity in the later years I don't really think so with 34 RTs and 5 RTLs - the Sutton HGFs could only muster 21 as double deckers. I know what you mean though, as there were AECs and Leylands galore of course as well as other odds and ends - fabulous odds and ends mind you eh ?? I'm sure my dreams would have come true 'ere long if the next to arrive had been RTWs.

On a very sad note - I've just heard today of the sudden death in the most tragic of almost unbelievable circumstances of John Fozard of Ledgard and photographic fame.

Chris Youhill

30/05/13 - 09:05

My word - what a superb posting which has generated so many excellent photos and memories.
All my books are in boxed storage following a recent move, so I can't check any SL references at the moment, and I might be making a silly observation, but.... When I looked again at the photo of JUA 916 in Bramhope, I was puzzled to see it displaying OTLEY Bus Station. All the other photos I've seen seem to only show OTLEY (or via Otley), but never Bus Station. Was this a one-off? I know that SL had the Otley locals to the Weston and Newall estates, but they always seemed to use the same (outward) destination display in both directions. Am I totally wrong, or was this Bus Station display unusual?

Paul Haywood

30/05/13 - 11:32

I'm so glad, Paul, that you're enjoying this topic. The way that its grown, from what was intended only as a description of four revival projects, has amazed me and I must say I'm gratified that so many friends have found interest and discussion in it. Your query about 916 displaying Otley BUS STATION is not silly at all of course but you may be very surprised by the answer. One of the very first moves by the Executors to improve the image of the Company from 1953 was to introduce destination blinds of this size - it has to be said that the usual SL "letterbox slits" until then were far from satisfactory. Over the next few years there were various versions of the new size displays, each one of improved layout and lettering, and the one in 916 was the final and undoubtedly the best. The version was pretty widespread by the end in 1967, although many of the older commendable attempts were still in use. As regards the two local town services in Otley it seemed to be simple "custom and practice" to leave the name of the estate showing all the time. Certainly "Weston Estate" or "Weston Drive" was always shown. On the older versions though "Newall" was shown throughout the half hour "cross town" cycle but, for perfectionists like me, it could be changed to "Golf House" for the southern direction. The final edition as in 916 "accepted defeat" and showed "Newall and Westbourne Estate" for the full round trip. Mind you, in all fairness, the Cross town Newall service was so incredibly busy during the day that the collection of all the fares was quite a formidable task. On the other route though to Weston Estate, equally busy, it was a case of "Ten minutes up, ten minutes back and ten minutes in the bus station" so "Otley Bus Station" could have been shown on the return, but really everybody knew the score and there was never any problem.

Chris Youhill

30/05/13 - 14:41

As a (slightly younger) participant in WYIS tours and as an enthusiast of that era can I pose another question for Chris Y?
I well remember Butler's scrapyard and its role as Ledgard's graveyard, but is my memory playing me tricks because in the early 70's I was courting my now wife who lived in Hawksworth. I seem to recall seeing a scrapped Ledgrard vehicle or its remains in the local quarry (Odda Quarry) behind Hawksworth village. Could I be correct Chris ?

Gordon

31/05/13 - 06:31

My word Gordon, its a pleasure to try to help but you've certainly had we locals baffled initially with this. We assumed that you meant the Hawksworth near Kirstall and therefore drew a blank as nobody had heard of an ODDA quarry. However, I decided to take a chance on the "other" Hawksworth on the Internet and, sure enough, that is the village that you mean. We know of no Ledgard vehicle remains in that area, but could you please try to remember a little more detail and possibly we may solve this one eventually.

Chris Youhill

31/05/13 - 09:18

Re the Hawksworth puzzle. In all the years I lived in that area and went through that village as a shortcut to the Harrogate road at Whitecross, the only dumped vehicle which I ever saw was an old Bradford tram. A little further on is the notorious Alma hill and near the top of it used to be the breakers known to us as Bingley Brick Kilns. I saw many old buses dumped in there which stood for many years gradually sinking into a muddy pond. I thought perhaps my input might help.

David Rhodes

01/06/13 - 15:33

Chris Y, I am sorry to have set you off towards the wrong Hawksworth - I never thought but one does wonder what historical quirk resulted in two settlements no more than 5 mile apart having the same name.
Unfortunately I can give no identity clues, it was very much a rusting chassis with some remnants of blue equally rusting bodywork which could have course been an abandoned lorry related to then abandoned (but now reopened) quarry workings. The purpose of my mentioning it was to see if it sparked anyone else's memory who might have had more detail if indeed it was a former Ledgard vehicle. In view of the negative response I suspect this is a red (or blue) herring. Sorry !
David, the quarry I refer to is off the beaten track to the North of Odda Lane and the remains I remember would only be seen if walking off the road. I drive past the old tram site between Hawksworth and Dick Hudson's at least once a week - it is now gone and if I recollect correctly I think it was destroyed by fire. The scrapyard was a little further on than Alma Hill, nearer to Micklethwaite and Bingley and was at one time the resting place of some withdrawn Bradford trolleybuses. It was reputedly owned by the man who ran one of the Sweet Shops at the Norman Arch near my school in Bradford.

Gordon

02/06/13 - 06:37

Ref the Bradford trolleybuses in the scrapyard, would this have been Autospares?

Andrew Charles

03/06/13 - 07:10

Andrew - Yes it was Autospares as I recall.

Gordon

03/06/13 - 08:36

Thanks Gordon for further "Quarry" information. From 1967 until well into the 1970s we were actively insearch of any former Ledgard vehicles after the demise of the Company. We are reasonably confident that everything was traced accurately during those years, and indeed since and up to the present day. If the remains that you describe were severely rusted even in the early 70s I suppose there's just a possibility of a very much earlier vehicle possibly disposed of around 1952, when Mr. Ledgard died and all his older vehicles, stored mainly on the collossal roof of Armley depot, were disposed of to defray death duties and to use the space far more effectively for parking. So, like just a very few other enigmas, I'm afraid we shall never know !!

Chris Youhill

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