Days out with Martin Hannett

Days out with Martin Hannett

If you Google the name Martin Hannett you will find details of a man who made his mark as a record producer with Factory Records to a level which some describe as inspired genius and was so involved in drugs and alcohol that they, it is said, eventually killed him at just short of 43 years of age.

So what has this got to do with this site? I doubt if many here are fans of Joy Division the Happy Mondays or the Buzzcocks, three of the many bands which owe him a great deal but it could have been so different as he had the potential to be another Geoffrey Hilditch or Edgley Cox.

I met Martin at school. He was a year younger than me and it was he who introduced me to Buses Illustrated. The first form at Xaverian Grammar School was in a building across the road from the main school. When Martin started his second year in 1960 I was a year ahead of him and had a group of friends who were into aircraft, buses and trains. Somehow Martin found us, brought along a copy of BI and within a few weeks we had clubbed together to buy two copies per month between us, which we devoured and discussed at lunchtimes.

In the holidays we sometimes got together and visited various bus stations and garages. This wasn't as easy to arrange as it sounds as we had interested people from as far apart as Rochdale, Warrington and Wilmslow. Martin was from Miles Platting, I lived in Stockport.

Martin and I took a number of trips on our own, two of which I well remember. In the autumn of 1961 we met in Stockport and gained access to both of the Corporation's depots. Our first intention was to see the 1940 batch of 3 Leyland TD7s which were all initially due to be withdrawn in 1962, as well as to check out the rumour that at least one of the 1936 or 1937 batches of TD4c still lurked in the depths of Heaton Lane depot after withdrawal in 1960.

Having found two of the latter gathering dust and also found the TD7s in excellent condition, we were treated to the 1926 Karrier being fired up. This anachronism which was still officially on charge as a tow wagon/light crane had solid tyres, no front brakes and had been bought in 1935 from Shell Petroleum in London where it had been used as a tanker. It is now in the Manchester Museum at Boyle St having still been on charge at Stockport and officially passed as an asset to SELNEC!

We were then told that if we crossed to the "works", i.e. the old tram sheds used as both a depot and workshop next to the fire station in Mersey Square, we would find something of interest. The first thing we came across, other than a number of garaged Crossley DD/42s, was an all Leyland PD2 undergoing heavy repair. Some panels were missing and, on the lower deck, a number of seats towards the front were missing. Suspended from the lower deck ceiling was a strop which was slung over a hook screwed into the ceiling on the centre line just back from the bulkhead. The bell housing cover against the bulkhead and a panel in the floor to the rear of this had been removed exposing the bell housing around which was attached the strop. Outside, the bonnet had been removed along with the mudguard not to mention the engine and accessories, the clutch and gearbox being held up by the strop and a judiciously placed jack. But this wasn't the "something of interest".

In the far right hand back corner, over a pit and being worked on by two mechanics, was 333 numerically, though not chronologically, the first of the 1958 batch of PD2/30s with the very last Crossley built bodies. Originally 343 prior to renumbering when the 1958 Tiger Cubs were renumbered 400 and above, 333 had the fourth last Crossley body and it was actually finished in the shed where we found it.

Now Martin at the time was 13. Whilst most in the bus interest group at school were interested in fleets, colour schemes and even number collecting, Martin was very much into the technical side of the vehicles. What was going on with 333 was an attempt to replace the vacuum brakes with air brakes and the ensuing conversation proved that Martin knew as much as, if not more than, the mechanics - so much so that the works manager was summoned and the project was discussed in detail with more people joining us as it went on, much of it at the time going over my head. By the time I revisited the works in early 1962 I'd swotted up on air brakes, though to no avail as the project was abandoned and 333 was relicensed, bearing a new style of brake lights as the only evidence of the months of fruitless work.

Having left a rather impressed group of corporation employees we ventured into Mersey Square. Stockport in the autumn of 1961 was much closer in appearance to the Stockport of 1945 than that of 1970. A good range of Stockport and North Western pre-war and immediate post-war buses were in evidence in all day service, albeit all of the North Western vehicles had been re-bodied post war. The most modern vehicles were Stockport's 1960 Longwell Green PD2s, North Western's Alexander bodied Loline 3s and Alexander bodied Reliances, nothing over 30 ft long and, Loline 2s and 3s apart, no double deckers with forward entrance and certainly no rear engined double deckers. There were still a good number of pre-war cars in evidence and the viaduct which dominates the town, though showing signs of rail electrification, was occupied the odd diesel multiple unit apart by steam hauled trains.

We did note North Western's 555, a Weyman bodied PD2 with a Ruston Hornsby air cooled engine wearing the second, and the most ugly, of its replacement tin fronts. It was operating the 81 to Denton and we debated the possibility of taking the return journey, especially to listen to the engine on the hills between Bredbury and Denton but the shilling half fare return was beyond our budget.

Instead we walked up the steep hill to St Petersgate, to Hillgate (passing close to the building which became Strawberry Studios where Martin would 20 years later produce some of his most famous work) and then to Charles St where we presented ourselves at the head office of North Western. Having gained admittance to both the garage and the works with the admonition not to touch anything and keep out of the way of anything moving (how different to today's health and safety paranoia) we first made our way to the rear of the garage where a good variety of withdrawn Bristol single deckers awaited their fate. Alongside were a couple of Atkinson singles, which had been North Western's ideal replacement for the no longer available Bristols, awaiting attention in the works.

We then moved into the works where we came across the major reason for our visit, a couple of Loline chassis awaiting delivery to Falkirk for bodying. From the late spring these had been arriving at Charles St for acceptance on a regular basis and had spent between a few days and a number of weeks, delays at Falkirk allowing for a good deal of apprentice training on the Gardner engines and chassis.

Martin had always been interested in the Lodekka but these were almost unheard of in Manchester, his experience of them was riding Crosville's examples on holiday in North Wales, so the chance to explore the next best thing and examine the mysteries of the drop centre rear axle was like Christmas come early to him. He soon had a crowd around him as he asked questions and displayed knowledge which impressed a manager who happened on the group, so much so that we were invited into the offices where, after further discussions, Martin was given a card and told that if he was still as interested when he had done his O levels, he should contact the manager.

There is no doubt that Martin was extremely intelligent and had a technical and mechanical bent. As a teenager he was, to be blunt, overweight. In those non PC days overweight kids were often called "fatty" to their face. We had two boys in my year O'Reilly and O'Riley, both pronounced O'Riley. In a school where first names were never used those two were distinguished by the staff as Oh Really and O'Riley. O'Riley was overweight and, staff apart, everyone called him "Fatty" O'Riley to which he responded without complaint. Martin was more obese than O'Riley but I never heard him referred to as anything other than Hannett as he was always personable, engaging and willing to offer help to people - much unlike his later persona.

In the Spring of 1964 Martin and I were in the same lower sixth form. His academic ability was such that he was in the "fast stream" which took O levels a year early then passed through the sixth form with people a year older, taking A levels early, having a third year in the sixth before going to University, re-sitting for better grades if necessary or adding to their haul of exam successes.

Lower sixth was a year when we could relax a bit with no exams for almost two years. At the half term before Easter Martin and I decided on a trip to see some Guys. Whilst Stockport and Ashton had a number of wartime Arabs and LUT had a host of the modern version regularly coming into Manchester (Salford Greengate to be strictly correct) we decided it would be interesting to see some more exotic examples, including a couple of Wulfrunians.

Our first stop was Blackburn which we gained by a Ribble full height Atlantean from Lower Mosley St. We gained admittance to Blackburn's garage with its variety of Crossley and East Lancs bodied Guys. The fleet was generally immaculate - civic pride in the Lancashire mill towns was often reflected in the way their bus fleets were presented - but there was little going on and with hardly anyone in the garage we found no-one to talk to. We travelled on a Crossley bodied Guy out to the East Lancs works but were refused admission - it was to be a further five years before I had a trip round that rather archaic establishment, the excuse then was business and I received a much warmer welcome.

We returned to the town and boarded a 1961 East Lancs Guy Arab to Accrington. Here we were out of luck again, but only temporarily, as we were invited to return in the afternoon having explained our interest in, particularly, the Wulfrunians. We immediately boarded an Accrington PD2/31 with East Lancs body bearing their original complex dark blue, red and black colour scheme for the journey to Burnley. It was now lunchtime, we had brought sandwiches which we ate en route and, conscious of time, we decided to walk around the town rather than visit the bus depot as Accrington would surely want us away before vehicles were despatched for evening rush hour duties.

The Burnley, Colne and Nelson fleet provided service to the three named towns and Padiham with its major route the linear service between Burnley and Colne. The fleet was smartly turned out in a scheme of maroon and cream, common in Lancashire but different here as the lower panels were in a maroon which was almost brown, the rest of the bus being a deep shade of cream, save a maroon stripe under the upper deck windows, single deckers being maroon lower panels, cream around the windows and over the roof.

The fleet was an interesting mix of Leyland, Guy and Daimler, many of either wartime or immediate post-war vintage with a mixture of East Lancs, Leyland and Massey bodies. The Burnley registration mark of HG was used and whilst NHG had been reached by 1962, the bulk of the fleet in early 1964 carried either HG plus four numbers or registrations between AHG and HHG which, given many other County Boroughs had reached well into the alphabet with reversed registrations prior to the adoption of the suffix letter system, made the fleet look quaint.

It was, however far from quaint. True its post war Guys had exposed radiators whereas Accrington's and Blackburn's had tin fronts but, unlike those authorities, it had 30ft forward entrance PD3s delivered in 1959 and 1961 with East Lancs bodies and PD2s with with Massey forward entrance bodies from 1962, soon to be followed by another batch in 1964.

Its 1948 and 1953 PS1 single deckers had all been converted to forward entrance and these were some of the most attractive buses in Lancashire. Though withdrawal of the very first had started some months before we visited, the last were not withdrawn until 1967.

We hadn't the time for a ride on one of the Guys, our original intention, but we had the opportunity to hear their very different note compared to the Leylands.

In contrast to the BCN fleet, Rawtenstall provided an East Lancs PD2 in the more usual Lancashire overall maroon with cream stripes relief. Most exotic to our eyes was the all Leyland PD2 bedecked in olive green, departing to Todmorden.

Ribble had a strong presence in Burnley and it had been the intention to return to Manchester on one of the cream Atlantean/Weymann 59 seat coaches on the X42 which ran from Skipton to Manchester. These were a less exotic version of the Gay Hostess motorway coaches and it was to be some years before I got the chance to sample one. Bought to replace the famous White Lady PD2s they were also to be known as White Ladies but the name never caught on with the type, such was its attachment to the PD2s.

Instead we retraced our steps to Accrington on a Ribble PD2 with Burlingham rear entrance body bound for Preston. Similar, but more rounded in appearance to Manchester's Burlingham bodied PD2s, this was different for another reason - rear platform doors.

On arrival back at Accrington we were surprised to see a Wulfrunian pulled out on the area in front of the garage. A mechanic greeted us and showed us over the vehicle. We had both come well prepared with questions. The first was "why buy Wulfrunians with rear entrance bodies?"

It seems that the local council had already run into problems with Ribble using Atlanteans and front entrance single deckers where bus stops were not best sited for front entrance vehicles. The Transport Committee and the General Manager were keen to investigate newer chassis but hadn't the backing to even buy front entrance single deckers, given the antipathy to moving bus stop locations from a very conservative minded Council.

When Guy came calling with the Wulfrunian in 1960 the immediate answer was "no" but there was interest in the suspension and braking systems and the Department had a number of excellent Guys in service. Guy, fighting for its independence and to keep its customer base, showed willingness to adapt the design for an open rear platform, fitted the engine on the centre line and, for commonality with the other guys in the fleet fitted a Gardner 6LW in place of the normal 6LX and, we were told, at the insistence of the Council who were wary of new technology, even fitted a manual gearbox.

East Lancs - that home of bespoke bus building - agreed to provide bodies and an order was placed for two. The bulk of the body was standard East Lancs fare but the full front, Jo'burg grille and upper deck front and front side windows were unique. There was a nearside cab door for access to the engine which, given its position, allowed for a wider driver's space and access to the batteries was by a hatch at the very front lower nearside panel of the body. See this link.

The result was more of a Wulfrunian/Arab cross.

We got the impression that Accrington felt it had been sold a mongrel pup, two in fact. No more Guys were purchased until 1964 by which time the company was in Jaguar ownership. The vehicles were needed to replace the Roberts bodied Daimler CVD6s and those Arab Vs were the last Accrington ordered.

The Wulfrunians saw little service. If memory serves me right, they were de-licensed at the time of our visit and they only lasted six years with the Department. One thing that stuck in my mind was the pronounced camber on the front wheels and the uneven tyre wear. The engine was started for us and we took turns in the cab - a rather unpleasant and noisy experience, not somewhere to spend a long shift in heavy traffic on a dark winter night!

After probably talking to the mechanic for far longer than he and his superiors anticipated - primarily due to Martin's probing questions - we took a tour of the depot. A range of Leylands and Guys of various vintages was on offer, including one of the 1962 East Lancs bodied Tiger Cubs which had introduced front entrance vehicles to the fleet and had eventually caused a number of bus stop locations to be moved.

All but ten vehicles in the fleet had East Lancs bodies of various vintages, a degree of standardisation some would have envied, although almost every East Lancs body was idiosyncratically different from the next.

The exceptions were two all Leyland PD2s, both of which were in service and we saw on the street; four Burlingham bodied PS1s all of which were in the depot, two awaiting disposal and four PD1As with rare Bruce body of which we were shown one, the others having departed on schools work whilst we were busy with the Wulfrunian. All the Roberts Daimler CVD6s had already gone.

We got a ride on a Guy at the end of our trip as we were given a ride into town on a 1956 LUF single decker (rear entrance of course!) positioning into the town centre to take up service. Our return to Manchester was courtesy of a Ribble low height Atlantean from which we observed the blue and cream Leylands of Haslingden and any number of Leyland and AEC types in Bury, including their Liverpool style Atlanteans.

At the start of this article I mentioned that Martin could well have become another Hilditch or Cox. How true is this and why didn't he?

Our school liked to think of itself as academic. It certainly had an ethos that its aim was to send Catholic boys to University and in doing so beat the local "opposition" of St Bede's and equal Manchester Grammar. I've mentioned Martin was in the accelerated stream for O levels and he gained excellent results.

In addition to the interest taken in him at North Western, he made a trip on his own to Ribble at Frenchwood as a result of correspondence he got into at the age of 16 on the problems of snatched gear changes on Atlanteans, still plaguing Ribble after years of service. As a result he was offered sponsorship through university if he took up an appropriate degree. Every trip I did with him, every conversation that I was a party to that he had with industry professionals, either on the shop floor or in management, was a discussion between equals without a hint of condescension.

In our group discussions at school he regularly came up with ideas for solutions to problems - he couldn't understand why rear engined vehicles weren't built with forward ascending staircases and wrote to every bodybuilder telling them they were building accidents waiting to happen. We together came up with the idea of a bus powered by compressed air generated by a small constantly revving diesel. He had the physics and chemistry worked out at a time when, though the idea had been around for 40 years or so for cars, yet never perfected, there was little published information.

His sixth form career was in science subjects and he could have moved towards an engineering degree but the school and his family pushed him towards chemistry. He took his A levels at the same time as me in 1965 and pretty much flunked them. He wasn't really happy with the idea that he would go to university to study chemistry. He should have taken a third year in the sixth but the headmaster wasn't happy with his and others' results and the behaviour of some of that year and Martin was one whose parents received a letter saying their son's presence was no longer required.

In an interview for a French magazine in the early 1980s he seemed confused as to timing - possibly due to his dependence on drugs - as he stated that he left school in 1966, having been denied a third year and resits and eventually went to study chemistry at UMIST in 1967. I believe he left in 1965, took a year out between 1965 and the start of the 1966 academic year after which he took a course which gained him good enough A levels to get into UMIST in autumn 1967.

Whilst in the sixth form he became interested in music - a family member was a semi professional - and he took up performing and developed this before going to university, in later years appearing as a musician on Top of the Pops. This led to his academic decline. Whilst at UMIST, where he gained what he described as a "poor" chemistry degree (presumably a 2.2) he got deeper into music but also took up alcohol and recreational drugs, habits that were to stay with him for the rest of his short life and were to kill him.

One thing he did lose after leaving school was weight. Throughout his musical career he was of average weight but when he entered his final years, became depressed and took more alcohol and drugs, his weight ballooned and he was over 25 stone when he was found dead from heart failure by his step daughter.

There is no doubt he became a manic musical genius within his genre and simply Googling his name will offer a wealth of information about that part of his life.

Had his inventiveness been applied to the bus industry and his dependence on drugs never happened he could now be coming up to retirement possibly with an honour to his name, certainly as a leader, even in a much changed industry.

I lost touch with him shortly after leaving school in 1965. In the late 1970s I should have met him again as my employer at the time had dealings with Factory Records but the times I met Tony Wilson, Martin didn't attend the meetings. The odd time he turned up unannounced, I wasn't there.

Phil Blinkhorn

28/12/12 - 14:17

Speaking as possibly the only person viewing this site who is/was very familiar with the musical side of Martin Hannett, I'm fascinated by the story of his secret life as a bus enthusiast. It's certainly something I never came across whilst reading Mojo or NME.


29/12/12 - 07:14

What an amazing article by Mr Blinkhorn! Some younger readers may not believe his comments about ease of access to garage premises in those days or, it must be said, the comments made to overweight friends, not just about them. "Fatty", "Bunter" and similar were indeed quite regular in those days. Even as late as the early 1980's, it was possible to present oneself at the garage office, have a chat with the foreman, and wander round. My own most frequent visits were to Blackpool's tram sheds, but I visited other places as well, and found the response was almost always very similar to those noted in the article. "Don't slip in any puddles of oil. Don't fall in any pits. Do enjoy yourself, and please tell me when you're leaving."
When I changed jobs in Southampton, and found myself as the liaison officer between the Council's Highways Department and the local operators, I had the run of Portswood depot and spent many happy hours - usually on a Sunday morning - taking photographs.
No chance of any of that now - political correctness and the Safety Elf prevail over common sense!

Pete Davies

29/12/12 - 09:16

It wasn't just garages that were accessible on a casual basis. I've just turned up at railway sheds and been given permission to wander round at will and airports and airfields were equally open.
Security and health and safety apart, there used to be a mindset that encouraged enthusiasts with a view to interesting them as possible recruits to an industry and, of course, many people at all levels in transport had some level of enthusiasm for their industry.
Today, of course, companies are run by managers on the basis that if you can manage in one industry you can manage any other type of company. Then, of course, there are the accountants who oversee everything and are only concerned with the bottom line and rule all - but don't get me started on them.

Phil Blinkhorn

13/01/14 - 16:45

Thanks Phil for another superb article.
Just one or two things about your recollections of your visit to North East Lancashire that may be mistaken, writing as someone who was living in Burnley as a transport-mad 12-year old at that time (also disposing of his pocket money visiting surrounding depots!).
(1) I'm convinced that BCN only had Leylands and Guys at that time, no Daimlers.
(2) Their main trunk route was Padiham (rather than just Burnley) to Colne.
(3) The mentioned 'Massey' bodywork was, I think, actually Northern Counties. Certainly on the 'St Helens' fronted forward-entrance Leylands. Some of the older half-cab single deckers I think had Massey bodywork and may still have been around at that time but probably working routes around Nelson so unlikely to be observed in Burnley bus station.
(4) The Ribble route to Manchester was X43.
(5) I'm intrigued by your recollection that the Ribble you took back to Accrington was bound for Preston. The only Ribble stage carriage route at the time to link Burnley and Preston was the 150/152/154 combination which went via Clayton-le-Moors not Accrington, and in any case the final destinations were all coastal towns beyond Preston. Additionally, by 1964 these were normally worked by forward-entrance Titans or Atlanteans. The X4/X14 expresses did travel via Accrington and Preston, but again the final destination would have been beyond, a coach would have been a more likely steed (at least midweek), and in any case I'm not sure if a Burnley-Accrington journey was allowed. So possibly you were on a 264 which was a Accrington/Ribble joint service, which I remember being operated by the type of bus you described. But in this case it would noy have gone any further than Accrington...
These are minor points though and your articles on the Old Bus Photos sites have brought back a phase of my life that (for better or worse) I had almost forgotten about!


14/01/14 - 08:19

Thanks KRP for your kind comments. To reply to the points you make: The Daimlers, along with the wartime Guys, were still in the fleet in early 1964. They all were pretty much in reserve and were progressively withdrawn through 1964/5 being replaced by the, as you correctly say, Northern Counties bodied PD2A/27s. We only saw one Daimler operating what looked like a school special. Regarding the trunk route, I was under the impression that, in 1964, this was run in two halves with Burnley being the change point but I'll accept your local knowledge. The X42 was a typo I should have picked up, especially as for much of 1967 I drove up and down much of the route most working days, often in the company of, or passing in the opposite direction, Atlantean 1272 on the service. Your observations regarding the trip from Burnley back to Accrington has given me a puzzle. We certainly travelled on a Burlingham PD2 and it certainly didn't terminate in Accrington town centre as we got off close to the depot on the Blackburn road which was convenient as it was drizzling at the time. It may have been filling in on an X4/X14 short working and I certainly don't remember any hassle about where we could travel to.

Phil Blinkhorn

15/01/14 - 05:58

Have I counted correctly here? Is it in paragraph 29 that Phil mentions the difficulty of siting bus stops for use by both front and rear-entrance vehicles? I must have missed this first time round. The good councillors of Accrington could have adopted LTs idea of the Headstop and Tailstop. During the couple of years I lived in London the only time I encountered a Headstop was in a side-street off Tooting Broadway, and I assumed it meant terminus stop. But apparently a Headstop meant all buses, front or rear entrance, had to stop with the front of the bus in line with the stop, to avoid obstructing a junction ahead of the stop. The much rarer Tailstop meant that all buses had to stop with the rear of the bus in line with the stop, to avoid obstructing a junction behind the stop. I would assume that now the Routemaster is a thing of the past that Headstops and Tailstops are too . . . unless there's a need for them along the heritage routes. Was this unique to LT, or did other operators have a similar arrangement? . . . obviously Accrington didn't. Incidentally, I once made a pilgrimage to Accrington to buy "bull's roll" from a tripe stall in the market: I've still got the Rossendale and Hyndburn TIM tickets I collected on the journey - and I can still feel the taste and texture of the stuff in my mouth to this day . . . I do now have a suspicion that it was meant for feeding to pets and not for human consumption, but in a town where they purchased rear-entrance not-quite-Wulfrunians I suppose anything might be possible.

Philip Rushworth

15/01/14 - 10:12

The introduction of front and forward entrance bodies caused problems for many urban operators regarding the siting of bus stops, particularly with regard to junctions. In the very ordered world of LT the existence of head and tail stops would have been the result of some logical thinking and the interference of the Met Police. Elsewhere other arrangements pertained and I remember various odd signs around the country informing drivers where to or not to stop in locations where an obstruction may occur but I don't know if any other operator had a formal name or rule for these situations.

Phil Blinkhorn

15/01/14 - 10:12

My nearest LT stop is a Tailstop. The "Bus Stop" road markings were repainted to give sufficient space for two buses. The stop sign and shelter remained in place, but are now in the centre of the stopping area. The first bus to arrive should stop as far forward as possible to allow space for a following bus.

Paul Robson

15/01/14 - 11:32

Tailstops were much rarer than Headstops, but here is a good and recent example of one. I'm sure I've seen one with the square plate which normally shews the route number. It certainly was a good idea, at which LT times! Maybe with the Boris (Ugly) Bus, they may still have a use! LINK:

Chris Hebbron

15/01/14 - 17:24

From 1965 to 1970 I lived very near to Queensgate Depot, Burnley. I never saw any of the Daimlers mentioned and can only assume they were sold or stored out of sight.
As stated the HG registration mark was normally used but a few Leylands in about 1950 were registered ACW the other Burnley mark. From memory the Mayoral car was registered CW1
I remember well the Guys. As a Londoner our family went to the Sussex seaside resorts and I saw the Southdown examples but never rode on them. I used the Burnley ones many times and found them to be very characterful.The Gardner roar and the eccentric whistling clutch made it a ride to remember.
BCN was a very well run fleet and one thing that remains with me is seeing several drivers still wearing clogs.
I remember seeing an Accrington Wulfrunian on two occasions in 1967, both times on the 264. Once on Accrington Road, Burnley and once laying-over at Burnley Bus Station. The Arabs were normally used on this route. Just before I left Burnley the 264 went over to Bristol REs a bus I would see much more of as I moved into Wilts and Dorset territory.


16/01/14 - 06:19

From what I can gather the BCN Daimlers had all been withdrawn by the end of 1964 though their actual removal from the locality may have lingered into 1965. The fleet was always very smart and the Leyland Tigers gave the area a certain distinction and the clogs were still in evidence as late as the mid 1970s.

Phil Blinkhorn

16/01/14 - 16:48

I've never seen a photograph of the BCN Daimlers mentioned above.Does anyone know where I might see one?


17/01/14 - 08:14

Paragon, there is a website listing a number of pictures of Burnley buses, including some of Daimlers. These photos are of great interest.

Roger Cox

17/01/14 - 08:17

There are a couple of pics of BCN Daimlers on the BCN Society website. Here's one with original Massey body - and one as rebodied by Northern Counties -

David Call

17/01/14 - 14:21

David C - No. 67, the still-austerity-built CWA6, really looks the bees kness in its recently repainted condition. Into what livery were BCN vehicles painted, in those days?

Chris Hebbron

17/01/14 - 16:52

In response to Chris H, the answer, as far as I am aware, is that they were painted in the same scheme which applied to the end of BCN and well into Burnley & Pendle days.

David Call

18/01/14 - 07:40

Paragon, I lived in Burnley from 1986 and by that time (so probably from the outset) the mayoral car was registered not CW 1 but HG 1. There was perennial debate over whether or not the council should accede to Hughie Green's repeated requests that the registration should be sold to him.
In the event, it wasn't.

David Call

18/01/14 - 12:41

And he meant those requests most sincerely, folks!

Chris Hebbron

19/01/14 - 09:22

Roger and David -Thanks for your replies.Re the Mayoral car you will notice I said "from memory".
Unfortunately I find that as the decades pass it becomes less reliable!




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