Sorry this is only half a Trent bus but could anyone tell me more about it please? The
vehicle registration no is CH 4073, the number on the driver's door is 207 and the
destination board reads 'Matlock'.
The conductor lived in Scotland until March 1924 so the photo must have been
taken after that date.
I'd prefer that my details were not published, please.
Anon
28/03/15 - 09:47
Where is the conductor's lower arm? Was he a war casualty? A one armed conductor must have been well known? Sounds as if you know him, Anon? Or was he a cheeky chappie winding up the photographer? Was there a flat route to Matlock?
Joe
28/03/15 - 11:17
It may only be half a bus (well, even less) but what a wonderful photograph Anon. Other than to say that it is a Tilling Stevens I will leave it up to those more familiar with the Trent company to identify the bus and route, but I'm pretty sure the conductor is fully equipped to the tune of two in the arm department and simply has his right hand in his pocket behind his cash bag ! The bus looks to be brand new. Being a bus crew setting off on a journey in those far off days must have been quite an adventure.
John Stringer
28/03/15 - 14:41
Did the panel with the white hand painted on it flip out as an early form of
mechanical indicator? Could it have been illuminated?
Or did it just become an aperture for the driver's hand to emerge
through in order to give an arm signal, it looks a little bit too low for
this.
John Lomas
29/03/15 - 06:55
The registration dates from the first half of 1924.
David Call
29/03/15 - 06:56
The 'white band's is an early form of mechanical indicator. The Driver had a handle which operated it. Whether it illuminated I do not know.
Stephen Howarth
29/03/15 - 06:57
After WW1, the Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Company bought up many ex Army Tilling-Stevens TS3 petrol electric lorries and subjected these to several design modifications and experiments, from which ultimately evolved the �in house� SOS. One of these design modifications involved a conversion to forward control (then known as �forward dash�) and the fitment of a double deck body. BMMO received 56 such machines in 1922-24 and these became the progenitors of the Maidstone built TS4 type which was available in normal or forward control. At the time BMMO had close engineering relations with the Potteries and Trent companies. I believe that the photograph shows a petrol electric TS3Z/TS4 (or, less likely, a TS6) of about 1923/4. The bodywork is by Brush with a capacity of 38 on upper deck and 26 below, though the total seating is sometimes stated as being 51. The BMMO examples had a forward entrance, but there is no evidence in the picture of a staircase behind the driver�s cab of the Trent machine, so the doorway must have been at the rear. Can anyone with access to the registration details of this bus confirm or refute these thoughts, please?
Roger Cox
29/03/15 - 06:58
I reckon a one-armed conductor would have to be a juggler in the days of Bell Punch
tickets! I am also of the opinion that he does have a right arm, which is
either in his pocket or behind his back.
Trent's presence in Matlock was not all that great - the area being
NWRCC territory. Their only (I think) normal service was route 4 which ran
straight up the A6 from Derby to Bakewell, but quite likely with short
workings to Matlock. I don't remember ever seeing double deckers on the 4 but
that's not to say there were none. It wasn't a particularly hilly route,
following the Derwent valley all the way. Obviously, in the 1920s before
licensing, there may well have been more. There was, of course, also the long
distance X2 Nottingham - Manchester.
Stephen Ford
29/03/15 - 11:53
A wonderful photo. I've doubts as to whether the conductor has one arm missing as I feel it would be impossible to do the job. It's more likely that putting his arm over the money bag would either look clumsy, or be uncomfortable. I notice that the driver has modified his cap in the stylish way often adopted by those who've served in the military - namely a slashed peak and removal/modification of the front top to soften the rigid look. Did it myself when serving my country! Perhaps he was in the Guards - I wasn't!
Chriis Hebbron
29/03/15 - 17:31
Trent purchased ten of these Brush bodied Tilling Stevens in 1924, they weren't the
first double deckers in the fleet but they were converted to pneumatic tyres
in 1928 and survived until 1931/32. After these, no more double deckers were
purchased until the SOS FEDDs in 1936.
There appears to be other vehicles in the background and the location
could be Albert Street bus station in Derby which opened in 1922. Double
deckers were not unknown on the Trent route to Matlock, particularly on busy
bank holidays but I believe they were unable to venture any further due to low
bridges on the A6 road.
Chris Barker
29/03/15 - 17:32
Gentlemen
According to PSVC fleet history PE16 (Trent part 1), CH 4073 was a TSM
TS6 chassis no given as 3146, bodied by Brush, (O31/26RO) and new in April
1924.
The solid tyres were replaced by pneumatics in 1928. It was withdrawn in
1932.
Bob Gell
29/03/15 - 17:34
In the book 'TrenT, A Pictorial Record' by Trevor K Brookes there is a picture of CH 4066, which on examination looks the same, or similar, to the one illustrated on here. The Fleet No. is 206, the one before CH 4073, No.207. It is shown as a Tilling Stevens TS6 with Brush body with a seating capacity of 57. 206 lasted until 1931, so perhaps 207 lasted the same amount of time.
Stephen Howarth
04/04/15 - 12:04
Many thanks to you all for your detailed information. The photo only turned up recently and, yes, the conductor (my father-in-law) did have two hands.
Thanks again.
Anon
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