I am trying to trace a mystery Daimler saloon bus possibly a CK type or that era.
It came from the Lincoln area the registration is unclear but might read
FE 211? Lincoln city did not have a bus fleet as far as I know. A register
search would be unrealistic with out a full or correct reg number so hopefully
someone out there might have an answer.
Ian Gibbs
28/01/12 - 06:45
Lincoln city had an all bus operation from the late 1920s they were Leyland users pre war and were allocated utility Guys before going back to Leyland and Guy in post war years They did buy one batch of AEC Bridgemasters and switched from Panthers and Atlanteans to Bristol products in their last days as a separate undertaking
Chris Hough
28/01/12 - 14:48
I do not remember any "C" series early Daimlers in the early Lincoln
municipal fleet.
The Williamson PSV Circle fleet list shows 3 Daimlers of that era, but
not with Lincolnshire marks.
Is a photograph of this vehicle available?
John Whitaker
29/01/12 - 07:35
Thanks Chris and John The source of this reg number was a very poor snap I copied it onto Agfa slide film viewed it via projector the starting handle covers part of the plate It may be possible to have the slide printed but image was very bad.
Ian Gibbs
31/01/12 - 08:06
The history of Lincoln Corporation Transport (Cyril Cooke, 2006) includes a full
fleet list, and no Daimlers until some second-hand Fleetlines bought post
deregulation.
The Corporation's first motor buses are recorded as Dennis CABs with
bodies by Thompson (LL Motor Body Works) of Louth, Lincs - new in 1920 they
carried registration numbers FE 3931, 3932 and 3966.
If the vehicle in the photo is FE 211x, that suggests something a year
or two earlier.
There's nothing similar listed in the history of Lincs Road Car (Graham
Wise, 2003) in the fleet list of the buses that came to the company when it
formed in 1928 either.
Sorry if this doesn't help much - it might at least rule out a couple of
possibilities. There were a lot of small companies in and around Lincoln in
the 1918-1939 era, and unless they got taken over by a larger company, it's
possible that records don't exist.
Jon
16/02/12 - 08:42
Here is a poor copy of the Daimler Saloon - maybe reg no FL 211 in Brid from my
collection via C Williamson, plus a picture of the Nth Landing-Thornwick Bay
Cafe connected with A Robinson's Green Bus Service (Robinson was quite
enterprising as was his wife she organised 'Land Tours' for the well to do
using Lancia Char-a-bancs they were direct antecedents to the style of tours
EYMS began or so I was told, a photo shows a Robinson Lancia with a
'Bridlington-Devonshire' destination board on the windscreen! her favourite
driver on these was Mr Elliot Flockton.
I believe that Mr A Robinson had something to do with the original cafe
setup as you can see a small saloon bus parked nearby. The vehicle may be a
small Lancia Armoured Car chassis ex Military N. Ireland 1921, rebodied in
Brid's Old Town, or it could be one of J Atkins' GMC K Types that had pulled
off for a passengers refreshment stop. This is also Copyright from my
collection passed to me by Mr Lewis who had been Archer Robinsons' Company
Secretary Final point on Robinson and Caravan sites he intended setting up a
Thornwick Area Site after selling buses in 1929 but had problems with planners
so gave up the scheme.
Ian Gibbs
16/02/12 - 16:49
Re. the Williamson (Bridlington) Daimler on your posting today.
Well, its definitely a Daimler, and with "Old Town" it is
certainly of the Williamson ilk!
However, there is no Daimler with an FL reg. either in the PSV Circle
list. This is a Huntingdonshire/Peterborough mark.
Are you sure it is not BT4227, XM 1716, or WT 8038?
Or could it be Blue Bus?
I remember the cafe at North Landing very well, it being there well into
the post war era, when I knew White Bus Service, and I spent some time there
as a youngster when some friends had a Lion PLSC holiday bungalow under the
old lighthouse tower. Was there not a similar cafe at the Lighthouse turn area
at Flamborough?
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me on the wonderful Brid
independents will be able to solve the mystery of this Daimler (CK type?)
John Whitaker
17/02/12 - 08:10
Hi John W thanks for your thoughts on the Daimler and the cafe.
Re Williamson fleet list there are some small inaccuracies in the psv
circle list, BT 4227 is a double deck bodied bus I have a picture of this, it
went to Ripley who was a ford agent in Brid also dealt in secondhand sales I
believe.
XM 1716 the number is thought to be wrong for a psv, the nearest I tried
was XN 1716 which I think was LGOC S701 this bus was scrapped 11/31 there may
be a source for XM 1716 I just have not found it WT 8038 it was a Red living
van it seems as a document dated Jan 1925 West Riding cc states this. Also it
had not been registered under the 1920 roads act until '25 though engine is a
1922 date of manufacture, the owner has supplied an Agents sales docs to the
Council the explanation for non registration is an illegible scrawl however
the registration book is issued. The chassis no. fits psv circle data but
model is written CJK! on Council form. So it may have gone to Williamson June
1925 I will try again to check the registration prefix letters but FL is the
nearest I could fathom so ex-Peterborough area is also my conclusion. There
are odd vehicles not in the psv lists for both A Robinson and Williamson. WF
3908 is wrong, also there was a Morris Commercial in Williamsons fleet with a
body made in Colchester I do not have a reg for it unless that is the
Thorntons of Otley Morris Commercial I recall there was a cafe gift shop very
near the lighthouse. re White Bus BT 3326 it was a Ford Lorry when new.
Ian Gibbs
17/02/12 - 11:31
Yes Ian, you are quite correct when you say there are inaccuracies in the PSV
Circle list. This applies to White Bus too, as there is photographic evidence
of an HS registered FC. Leyland Cub, which is not mentioned, plus other
missing detail for ex Halifax regents, and London Daimlers.
Keep up the good work, and let us all know if you get a result!
John Whitaker
18/02/12 - 09:30
As we are back in Bridlington again can anybody identify this photo I picked up in
a local library a couple of months ago, it is at Flamborough Lighthouse and
seems to be registered BT293 or 298, it looks like an overloaded car but is
carrying boards for Lighthouse and Caves.
I think it may be Williamsons but that is only a guess and what make is
it?--just another mystery Bridlington bus, but it is a good photo of an old
bus.
Mike Davies
18/02/12 - 16:27
John W I have seen photos of the HS 8306 Lion Cub with two bodies so they must have swopped one at some time so it might be one and the same vehicle if not then that is interesting re the slide picture I've had an offer to get it scanned by a professional person in about two weeks time so this may produce a decent copy lets hope so
Ian Gibbs
21/02/12 - 16:44
Yes any more information and photos and of course a book on Bridlington operators would be first class.
Mike Davies
21/02/12 - 16:45
I have been trying to concentrate (difficult at my age!) on the early post war
fleet of Williamson, Bridlington, and would like to pose the following
possibilities/probabilities re. the following, if anyone can help. KH 4071
(PLSC1) sold to Boddys c.1945/6.
I know for a fact that some Bradford friends purchased a PLSC1 from
Boddys, which they converted to A caravan at Flamborough 1946. Is this it?
DT 9643, and DT 5337. Could these be the 2 caravans which arrived at
Skipsea cliff top in 1951, in maroon livery? I had always thought they came
direct from Doncaster.
Finally, unless I am totally "doo lally", my memory tells me
that I rode on a centre entrance TD2 on a service from Filey to Flamborough in
1947/8.
I am wondering if this could possibly be HD 4803, which spent the first
3 months of 1948 in the ownership of Wallace Arnold, before going to
Williamson. Is it possible that Boddy hired this bus from WA, as I remember
the service as being run by Boddy, albeit on a very short term basis.
any clarification or correction of these blurred memories would be most
welcome.
John Whitaker
22/02/12 - 07:22
I can help John with one of his queries. The two six wheel caravans to which he refers must have come direct from Doncaster if they were in maroon. The two which Williamson's ran were painted to the usual high standard in that operator's fabulous livery of two blues and cream.
Chris Youhill
06/03/12 - 17:57
Hi Mike and readers the vehicle shown at the lighthouse is a Napier 12/14hp Brid museum has a similar photo. Now a query for Keith E on Hull please, is there any record of the two Hired-in buses that ran trials on the Newbridge Road proposed route in 1923, said to have been a saloon AEC and a double-decker Leyland two drivers came with the buses and stayed at KHCT when the buses left.
Ian Gibbs
20/03/12 - 07:21
Hi Ian, With regards to Tooth & Waddington's loan of buses and drivers to Hull
Corporation, such information as I have come across is as follows:
The PSVC fleet history PB22 gives a Leyland open top decker and an
AEC/Tylor toastrack, however, in an article on Buses Extra, several years ago
an article by Graham Wise on KHCT, give the following information: "The
two buses involved were Leyland (BT 7268 or 7269) and AEC YDN type (BT
5288)."
Of course I cannot verify the information as being correct, but it does
coincide with the PB22 fleet history.
Keith Easton
31/03/12 - 12:47
Keith thanks for the message re KHCT hired in buses its nice when info comes in to help with a query such as this I thought you might have an answer Yes the BT 7268/9 are in the T&T Fleet may 1924, I must find a copy of that buses extra magazine also the PB22 does PSVC visit Pudsey I used to be in the PSVC but moving about so much I just decided to exchange info with Mike Walker to update ops cards as I found it and dropped out. somewhere on the site i saw a mention of KH 4071 recently It was new to Harry Tyler partner to David Burn when they set up Grey De Luxe 1927 after selling Grey bus to 1926 It appears to go from Hull motor tax to the East Riding C C tax presumably R Williamson 12/36 later on to J Boddy 'by/47'. Is the 'Tylor' Toastrack the name of the body maker or Engine!
Ian Gibbs
01/04/12 - 08:26
Hi Ian, with reference to PB22, it is by now out of print, as it is not listed on the PSVC website, but according to the January editorial a new edition is being prepared, but of course, I have no idea as to when it will actually appear in print. Regarding the AEC BT 5288, from T&W; it is listed in PB17 as being new to Archer Robinson in 7/22. In addition to this, the fleet lists for TT&T and T&W both list an AEC Y as being new to the former in 7/22, and passed to the latter. It seems probable that this was indeed BT 5288, and probably the basis of Graham's statement in his article. The article I have is a photocopy, whatever happened to the original magazine I do not know, so I cannot be definite as to when it was published, but sometime in the early '80's I think.
Keith Easton
04/04/12 - 08:31
Hi Keith thanks for the upbate on the pb22 booklet. re TT&T T&W the fleet list
should be a gem of info.
I contacted the Mr Trown from OBP query page and it was his grandfather
who was a driver for TT&T I was able to give a little info re the firm it
proves what a super resource we have in the OBP.
Ian Gibbs
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