After seeing the posting by Ian Thompson of the Aldershot & District Dennis Lance GOU 845 I thought the following maybe of interest.
The original Dennis Lance came on to the market in 1930, and was quickly
superseded by the slightly longer Lance II. Two completely different radiator
styles were offered, a neat version with a modest bonnet height, and the oval
shaped variety as used in the Lancet, with the bonnet set at a ridiculously
high level.
www.busmuseum.org.uk/webnews/news035.htm
www.alangeorge.co.uk/Images
www.dennissociety.org.uk/
The Dennis Lance K3 was closely related to the pre war Lance, but
employed the advanced O6 power unit of 7.58 litres, exactly the same capacity
as that of the well known AEC 7.7. The Dennis engine, however, had four valves
per cylinder and no other British manufacturer ever made a four valve engine
in quantity. The engine also had wet liners which gave no trouble whatsoever,
in marked contrast to Southall's forays into this field. The efficient gas
flow properties of the four valve head, together with the high standard of
engineering and balancing of components resulted in the O6 engine being
possibly the smoothest running diesel of all time. Unlike the ambitious claims
of some other makers, the O6 developed a genuine 100 bhp at 1800 rpm, which,
when coupled with the 'O' type overdrive gearbox, gave the K3 Lance a
sprightly performance. By comparison, the contemporary AEC 7.7 was claimed to
give 'up to' 98 bhp at 1800 rpm, and the 6LW delivered a consistent 102 bhp at
1700 rpm. A plate inside the cab of the Aldershot and District Lance K3s
instructed drivers not to engage fifth gear below 30 mph - this at a time when
30 mph was the legal maximum speed for a psv. The Lance K3 inherited several
features from its pre war namesake, notably the lofty driving position
dictated by the earlier absurdly high 'oval' radiator and bonnet, but the
radiator for the post war double decker became a smart new design set at a
lower level. Strangely, this modern radiator style was not employed on any
other Dennis models, though the Lancet would definitely have benefited had it
been so adopted. Sadly, in the post war world of Leyland PD2s and AEC Regent
IIIs, the Lance appeared to lack the 'unique selling points' of its powerful
higher profile competitors. Apart from Aldershot & District and East Kent,
major operators seemed to be wary of the four valve cylinder head of the O6,
though a great many Independents ran O6 engined Lancets without any trouble at
all. In 1947/49 Lancashire United bought 19 Lances with Gardner 6LW engines,
and these were classified K2. A total of 49 K3 Lances was built, of which
Aldershot & District took 40, and 5 went to Merthyr Tydfil Corporation. Tudor
Williams of Laugharne, Carmarthenshire, Ebsworth Bros, also of Laugharne, and
Red Rover of Aylesbury all took one each. One 1947 example was bodied as a
single deck Santus C33F coach for L.F.Bowen's "Superior" fleet in Birmingham.
The appearance was such that it is surprising that Dennis did not offer the
Lance style of radiator on the Lancet model.
Aldershot & District No.124, GOU 824, the very first K3 delivered to Aldershot & District (in 1948) is seen on a wet day in Guildford Park Road, and again in more clement conditions turning from Farnham Road towards Guildford town centre. Both photos were taken in 1961. Aldershot & District withdrew the K3 fleet the following year as the Loline IIIs arrived. This bus, 124 (originally D729, a number shared, in error with a Lancet J3) spent its entire life working the short local route 27 between Guildford town centre and Dennisville, the estate built by the Dennis company in 1933 to house the White and Poppe workers when engine production was moved from Coventry to Guildford. Dennis had bought White and Poppe in 1919, and after the move, the Coventry factory was sold to Triumph cars.
The preserved Lance K3, 145, GOU 845 is pictured on the A23 during a Brighton
HCVC run in 1969.
The K4 version of the Lance appeared in 1954 to take advantage of the
increase in the permitted length of double deckers to 27 feet. This model was
exclusive to Aldershot and District who took 32, 20 of them with East Lancs
bodywork and the balance of 12 with a less austere version of the Weymann
Orion design. The five speed gearbox was retained, but the power unit became
the Gardner 5LW. The engines were recycled from some withdrawn 1939/40 vintage
Lancets, but rebuilt and updated to the then latest 'K' specification to give
94 bhp rather than 85 bhp. These buses were equipped with a Dennis variety of
the 'Birmingham tin front'.
This picture of East Lancs bodied K4 No.212, LOU 40, has appeared on OBP before,
but it is included here again to afford comparison.
One final point is worth mentioning about the Aldershot & District
vehicle allocation system. Each vehicle running was permanently given to a
specific bus, so that the same bus did exactly the same road run every single
Weekday/Saturday/Sunday of its entire life, apart from occasional changes for
engineering/overhaul reasons. This meant that some buses got hammered day
after day on local town work, while others on the trunk routes, like the
Farnham - Hogs Back - Guildford run, scarcely suffered any wear and tear at
all. So permanent was this arrangement that the garage runout board was
actually (beautifully) signwritten with the vehicle fleet numbers against the
individual garage departure times. To cope with engineering substitutions, a
small pool of spare buses existed, and another board alongside with chalk
entries said, "For bus number xxx substitute yyy". I know that this
curious arrangement was not unique to Aldershot & District, but it must have
been pretty rare, and rightly so. It was daft.
Roger Cox
21/07/14 - 11:11
Over rigid and seemingly daft indeed Roger - its a wonder that reserved seats and "season tickets" weren't allocated to regular commuters !! Having said that though I do think that A & D was a most individual and appealing operator or real character with a glorious livery, and transport history and fascination would have been much the poorer without them.
Chris Youhill
22/07/14 - 06:56
A very interesting and timely potted history of the Dennis Lance, Roger, much
appreciated. The links show that some Lances had what I always
considered to be the coach rad, but very sloping!
The return journey from Onslow Road Bus Station to Dennisville
(route 27) is about 2 miles and the bus station to Rydes Hill, return,
about five. Conversely, the return route to Petersfield is about 52
miles, with a third from Guildford through Godalming and Milford being a
bit built up, but virtually open road from then on. The first two routes
were of 20 minute frequency and the last one hourly. As Chris Y
intimated, the system was quaint, but illogical!
For 18 months, in the early 1960's, I used to work only a five
minute walk from the bus station and spent many a lunchtime halfhour
watching the activity there, that is if I wasn't enjoying a swift pint
of Friary Meux beer!
Chris Hebbron
22/07/14 - 06:57
An excellent piece by Roger. I couldn't agree more regarding Roger's comment
on vehicle utilisation. Interesting how, even in the contemporary photo,
the exposed radiator vehicles look better than the tin front version. As
an aside, I visited my cousin in Toronto in 1992 when he was in charge
of one of GO Transit's depots. We were talking about the UK bus industry
and he was surprised at the growth of Dennis in the UK industry,
concentrating as he was on US and Canadian built single deck vehicles.
His only knowledge of Dennis buses was the Lolines of North Western from
his youth.
I visited his HQ building and depot in 2009 when he was Director
of Bus Operations. He was pleased to show me his latest acquisitions,
which he had been to Scotland to buy- ADL Enviro 500s 80 seat double
deckers. Now as Vice President of GO Operations, his bus division has
117 of these - a quarter of the total bus fleet and a major turnaround
for the company, indicative of just how the fortunes of Dennis as a
brand has changed since UK bus deregulation.
Phil Blinkhorn
22/07/14 - 08:06
An individual and appealing operator, indeed, Chris, that maintained very high engineering standards until catastrophically subsumed into Thames Valley from 1 February 1972. I cannot claim knowledge of the other depots, but, at Aldershot, there was no bus wash machine. Each evening an army of ladies appeared on the premises armed with long handled brushes, and each bus was washed by hand. The smart paintwork never seemed to grow tired, in marked contrast to that of certain present day fleets. After mercifully escaping from the Halifax Traffic Office, I spent eighteen months as a driver at Aldershot in 1966-68. At A&D, drivers reported to the Chief Engineer, and conductors to the Traffic Manager. The A&D CE was then Colin Clubb, and some years later, when I was a middle manager at LCBS, Reigate, our paths crossed again when he became the GM of London Country. He was a very pleasant man to work for. The A&D livery underwent a change in 1954 when the lower panels of the buses became a darker shade of green, in my opinion enhancing the livery. The preserved Lance K3 is painted in the earlier overall light green with cream relief. I do not have any colour pictures of a Lance in the later livery, but here is a shot of a Loline I.
There is a bit of a twist to this picture as it shows East Lancs bodied No.337 SOU 445, working for City of Oxford, another operator with a superb colour scheme. In the early 1970s COMS suffered serious vehicle problems, reputedly owing to difficulties with component supplies from Southall, and Aldershot & District stepped in to help at short notice with some Dennis Lolines, initially Mark IIIs, but these were later substituted by Mark Is. The bus is negotiating the roundabout known as The Plain at the south eastern end of Magdalen Bridge. The scene is scarcely altered some 40 years later; even the architectural excrescence behind the bus is still there, now a Sainsbury Local.
Roger Cox
22/07/14 - 12:58
I entirely agree with RC that the adoption of a darker green on the lower
panels enhanced the livery, tremendously I thought. I had no experience
of A&D until I lived in Winchester in the early 70's. In a city where
all buses were green (bar the odd Wilts and Dorset) the A&D livery on
the Loline III's working the #14 was a real head turner. The Tilling
liveried Lodekkas on the #47&48 were dull by comparison and the King
Alfred fleet was, by then, in very poor shape. I was fortunate to leave
before NBC repaints of any of these came along.
I find myself in agreement with Phil Blinkhorn that the exposed
radiator on the K3 looks a lot better than the 'tin front' on the K4.
This is unusual because in my childhood 'tin fronts' meant modern and
tidy and I still hold that uncommon view (I'm probably one of the very
few who like the 'St Helen's front). Looking back, the only post war
exposed radiator on deckers that looks 'right' is the Titan's and now
the Lance (probably because it successfully marries the fluting like a
Daimler with shape not unlike like a Leyland). Finally, in Victoria, BC
a few years ago and seeking to photo the former New York 'Mancunian'
that Gray Line were operating I was pleased and proud to see the six
wheel Dennis Enviros that the city had deployed on the University
route.
Ortla Nutting
23/07/14 - 06:44
With regard to the amended Aldershot scheme, when North Western and A&D did a
Loline swap the A&D Loline was in the revised scheme. Compared to the
red and cream shades which predominated in South Manchester and North
Cheshire at the time, the Traction Engine, as some crews and enthusiasts
came to call it, not only stood out but was beautifully finished inside
and out and put the red, hot sprayed and quickly dulled, paint of MCTD
to shame.
Orla, Go Transits first use of its ADL Environs was also on
University routes.
Phil Blinkhorn
Comments regarding the above are more than welcome please get in touch via the 'Contact Page' or by email at
All rights to the design and layout of this website are reserved Old Bus Photos does not set or use Cookies but Google Analytics will set four see this
Old Bus Photos from Saturday 25th April 2009 to Friday 8th July 2016