We Were Bus GUARDS

I must say how much I enjoyed reading this site. I read someone describing himself as a bus conductor. We were bus GUARDS and Drivers. I think the name must have come from old tram services. We had TRACKS not duties or rotas. If you caught up with the bus in front you were PUSHING him. The Bus parking area at Belle Vue was called the SIDDINGS. The garage was called the SHED. Perhaps other readers can remember other examples.
I also read about cars following buses back into the depot in the Smog. I remember Guards would volunteer for fog duty for an extra sixpence an hour? (I think, it was not much). They would put on a long white coat, then set off on the depot cycle with a lamp burning on the back to lead convoys of buses up main routes. Health and Safety nowadays would go ballistic. Cars did sometimes end up back at the depot on foggy nights behind returning buses. I laugh now when radio warns traffic of fog reducing visibility to 50 yards. Sometimes the Smog was that dense, I sat on the bonnet of the bus telling my Driver Dennis, through his open window, were the curb was and looking out for parked cars. Passengers were looked on as a pain sometimes but we took a pride in getting them home in bad weather.

Peter Furnival

19/08/14 - 08:32

It seemed natural to call the conductors 'guards', never gave a second thought until I moved out of the Manchester area and realised that it was peculiar to the broader Manchester area. Not that MCTD acknowledged the term; vacancy notices, a permanent feature on their buses, always used the term 'Drivers and Conductors wanted'.
Nowadays the use of the term just defines an old Mancunian, sadly.

Orla Nutting

19/08/14 - 09:08

At Leeds City Transport's Headingley depot (originally horse trams) it was common parlance even in the 1970s to ask someone "what time do you tek 'od." This obviously survived from when a fresh driver "took hold" of the reins !! At Samuel Ledgard's Otley and Ilkley depots the buses were referred to officially as "machines" in the rotas, duties and in conversation. At both of those depots there were no running boards, all necessary instructions being neatly incorporated in the duty descriptions. Possibly this may not have worked in a huge depot like Armley but at Otley and Ilkley (20 and 7 rota weeks respectively) it guaranteed an efficient and reliable service for which the Public still crave (after 47 years) and which has never been bettered.

Chris Youhill

19/08/14 - 09:08

I am from Rochdale, a mere dozen or so miles from central Manchester but back in the late 1950s/early 1960s it was considered akin to a polar expedition to go into the big city. During my time at Yelloway (1967-1974) I was regularly assigned to the Manchester departure stations to load holiday coaches and one definition used by the Mancunians that always sticks with me is that a pushchair was referred to as a trolley.

David Slater

19/08/14 - 10:49

I don't know if they still exist, but London Transport had Point Men. They were inspectors who regulated the buses, but they started out as people who changed the points for the trams, and later the overhead wires for the trolleybuses.

Ronnie Hoye

19/08/14 - 14:05

My mother was from Ashton under Lyne and she always referred to push chairs as trolleys, as did many of Ashton's conductors. The smog situation in Manchester could be appalling, even well into the 1960s. I have had to walk from school in Rusholme to home in Heaton Moor many times, often overtaking the buses. Boys from Glossop, Warrington and Macclesfield were sometimes accommodated overnight in the school gym, those who did not have a phone at home had their parents contacted by telegram. Though Manchester was a pioneer in smokeless zone enforcement, the implementation was patchy. In the winter of 1965/6 it took me two hours to drive my Ford Popular from All Saints to Heaton Moor - about six miles or so - in dense smog. It has been mentioned before on this site that MCTD had FOG as a panel on their intermediate blinds and that trip highlighted just how informative of conditions elsewhere that blind could be to passengers in the suburban smokeless areas who had either a light mist or no sign of poor visibility and were frustrated by the late or non-arrival of their service. On reaching Green End and climbing up past Mauldeth Home I emerged into bright winter sunshine - Orla Nutting will know what I'm talking about.

Phil Blinkhorn

20/08/14 - 06:16

Trolleybuses were the most 'fun' in the smog! The full-front and silence made them positively dangerous to walk in front of and if the driver lost his bearings, he could de-wire. The guard then had to stand at the back with the trolley pole, 'fish' for the wires and probably dodge a hail of burning soot as he tried to find them!
Incidentally, the sidings at Belle Vue used to be just that because that was where the trams waited for crowds leaving Belle Vue

John Hodkinson

20/08/14 - 08:48

I've just remembered another delightful term from when I used to help out at Arriva's Selby depot. The bus station canteen had no view of the bus station and so of course we couldn't see whereabouts our next bus was located. There was an inward unloading point and, on the other side of the bus station, all the various departure stands. For any other parking there were bays next to a nice horticultural feature and turning area - so an incoming driver would come to the canteen and say, for example, "Who's on Hemingbrough ?? - well its aggen' t' flower beds."

Chris Youhill

20/08/14 - 14:26

Smog was a major problem for trolleybus operations, as slow running on series only control notches caused serious overheating of of the trolleybus resistor banks. This overheating caused a fire and the loss of two LPTB trolleybuses during the WW2 period. These buses were M1 953 and L1 1565. Similarly a Huddersfield Karrier E6 no 28 was also destroyed by fire due slow running in smog in 1940, but this bus was re-bodied in 1941 and returned to service.

R P Fieldhouse

20/08/14 - 14:27

At East Kent (and many other operators, I think) the buses were referred to as CARS. This will have been reflected in the company's full name, the East Kent Road Car Company. It might have been a hangback from the days of the Dover and Isle of Thanet tramway systems, with their TramCars, or perhaps the Road Car was sufficiently different (and modern) to differentiate the company's vehicles from their predecessors.
Likewise, I seem to recall that the duty rosters were Car Lines or Key Lines, again appearing to harp back to tramway practice.

Petras409

21/08/14 - 06:14

In Hull trolleybus drivers were called and classed as motormen, a relic from tramway days.

Malcolm Wells

21/08/14 - 06:15

John Hodkinson (and others) makes mention of Manchester's 'Smogs'.
I have found this picture in my files of a Manchester Corporation Transport Department motor cycle, and rider, who according to the caption on the rear used to lead buses during the fog. The bank of lights on the rear must have been the 'guiding lights'. The white uniform issue coat must have been the most inappropriate colour for the job, they would have been black, as would the rider, after riding in a Manchester 'Smog'.
The registration mark BVR was issued from September to October 1935.
Regarding the term Guard used for Conductors, although only being 'Up the Road' from Manchester when I worked at Oldham Corporation/SELNEC (1968-1974) I can not recall the term being used there.

Stephen Howarth

21/08/14 - 08:46

In 1987 when I ventured from Headingley in Leeds all the way to Pontefract to drive on SYRT (17 miles) I was puzzled to find that all conductors were referred to as "clippies" - men included. I still believe that the term nationwide originally meant lady conductors ??

Chris Youhill

21/08/14 - 10:50

Did you use 'lady conductors' deliberately, Chris Y , for I thought the usual full expression was conductresses, or maybe we are just finding that there is no usual any more!!
I do recall that there were plenty of conductors on London Transport, well into the 'fifties, who used to say, "Full up inside; plenty of room outside" a hangover from open-top vehicles, the last of which would have gone around the early 'thirties! Old habits die hard.

Chris Hebbron

21/08/14 - 10:51

When I worked for Liverpool City Transport in 1968, we were employed as conductors, and inspectors called us to the desk as "Conductor .....".
However, older passengers addressed us as "Guard".

Dave Farrier

21/08/14 - 12:38

When I worked at Derby Borough/City Transport they were called DUCKS.
Mind you the general term of endearment was to call everybody 'Me Duck's'.

Stephen Howarth

21/08/14 - 12:39

Regarding Chris's reference to "inside" and "outside", conductors in the East Midlands area tended to direct surplus passengers upstairs with the statement "Seats on the top!"

Stephen Ford

21/08/14 - 12:43

Down in Portsmouth, conductors were called just that, the ladies were usually conductresses, occasionally clippies, but that term was probably used by those with a London or other background. When Portsmouth introduced PAYE single deckers in 1960 to replace the trolley buses, the local newspaper struggled with the concept. In all it's reports, the staff assigned to the PAYE duties were called "driver-cum-conductor". This term was used by the paper for several years. The trolley buses were also termed "trollybuses".

Michael Hampton

21/08/14 - 17:49

Chris H - well, I used the term "lady conductors" merely to identify them - I've never heard that said before or since and, as you rightly say, the standard term was "conductresses."

Chris Youhill

23/08/14 - 06:24

I seem to remember that Lancashire United conductors had the word "Guard" on their uniforms. When I worked on the Rochdale buses in the mid seventies, conductors were sometimes referred to as "Connies".

Don McKeown

23/08/14 - 06:26

Orla Nutting correctly points out that the use of the word "guard" for a bus conductor was never MCTD official policy. Similarly, and more confusingly, the "tracks" that Peter Furnival refers to (elsewhere called diagrams) were officially called "routes". This ensured that the word "route" was never used on the office in the sense of a service! However, these tracks were quite distinct from duties. A track defined what a bus did, whereas a duty defined what a bus crew did. A bus which was in service all day would operate a single track, but this would be split into more than one duty for staffing purposes.

Peter Williamson

24/08/14 - 06:46

I certainly recall the Portsmouth Evening News always referring to trollybuses, Michael H. Stephen H refers to Ducks/Me Ducks and, in London, folk referred to themselves as Ducks/Duckie. In Portsmouth, folk referred to each other as 'Lover' or 'Moi Lover' and it was 'Our Mum/Dad'. When I lived there in the 1956/76 era, people still spoke with an 'ampshire burr. When in the RAF (1956/58), the train from Waterloo would pull into Havant Station and the announcement was "'avant, this is 'avant. Change 'ere for the Broiton Loin: change 'ere for 'ayling Oiland!" Now they all speak like Londoners.
And Michael H, do you recall the, I think, sole, Corporation conductress who had very long hair tied like an enormous birds nest? Rumour had it that her sweetheart had died in the war, having previously said what beautiful locks she had and she should never cut her hair. It was somewhat difficult to pass by her in the aisle, such was the amount of space it took up. However, the last few times I saw her, it had been cut back to normal. I saw her on the 17/18/19/20 trolleybus routes, the main ones I used, but she might have been on other routes, too.

Chris Hebbron

24/08/14 - 06:46

As Dad was a bus driver with West Yorkshire Road Car for many years, the family was familiar with which 'turns' dad would be working - earlies, lates or splits. At times he might be '2 o'clock spare' or similar, meaning that he was on standby in case another driver 'blobbed' (eg: didn't turn up for duty due to illness). Buses were also known to 'blob' at times (eg: not turn up as expected due to breakdown). Although conductors and conductresses were officially referred to thus by the Company, Dad and other platform staff affectionately referred to them all as 'Ducks'. As an aside, for many years West Yorkshire conductresses were paid at a lower hourly rate than conductors doing the same job, and within the industry the company was not alone in carrying out such appallingly sexist practices. Very sad really, as in most other respects West Yorkshire had a reputation for being a good employer. Fortunately some years later Barbara Castle, a strong advocate of equal pay for equal work, had legislation passed in Parliament to redress the balance.

Brendan Smith

24/08/14 - 18:44

My dad worked for Leeds City Transport for 30 years as a conductor and always referred to himself as a guard Roving inspectors were known as checkers as they checked passengers tickets A split shift was a banger as you got both peak periods. Crew changes were known as taking over while overtime was known as snivelling (as in snivelling to the management) Discrepancies in paid in revenue were known as shorts. The senior rota for older staff was known as the old man's rota. Turning up for your shift with no definite duty was known as showing up.
Until the sixties Leeds buses were very sparsely furnished with bells and a sharp rap on the glass behind the cab was an accepted way of starting the bus. One survivor of early tramway days was the cry pass down inside and there's plenty of room on top.

Chris Hough

27/08/14 - 17:35

Thanks, Chris H (Hebbron) for the 'Ampshire station announcer at 'Avant. Pompey people were similar, but probably slightly faster in speech. I don't remember the conductress you speak of, but I tended to ride the London Road / Copnor Road routes, so probably not so much chance of an encounter if she was usually 17/18 and 19/20. I do remember a conductor who would call out "tai vee" as he rang the bus off. I have no idea what accent this was, but was probably his own corruption of "hold tight please". Not a term we hear much these days, even in it's "pure" form.

Michael Hampton

28/08/14 - 05:44

As we have drifted into accents and distinctive phrases, the late Arthur Askey had a catch phrase "Ay Thang Yew" which he stated he poached from a particular Liverpool conductor (tram or bus??) who would patrol his bus repeating "Any More Fares, Ay Thang Yew" in broad Scouse.

Phil Blinkhorn

28/08/14 - 07:58

To follow Phil's comment: I have five languages - English, French, German, Latin and Sheffield.

David Oldfield

16/09/14 - 10:34

Chris Hebbron (24 8 14) and Michael Hampton (27 8 14) mention a Portsmouth conductress (I remember seeing her but had not heard the story about why she wouldn't cut her hair). She is shown on 'Transport in and around Portsmouth' - Online Video.

Andy Hemming

17/09/14 - 07:16

Interesting that she was captured on film, Andy, but sadly, I can't find the video online to watch.

Chris Hebbron

22/09/14 - 14:45

This matter is definitely Case Sensitive. I mentioned the video 'Transport In and Around Portsmouth'. It was produced by Online Video, Little Martins, Ox Lane, Tenterden, TN30 6NQ in 2002, and to my knowledge is not available online. I don't know whether the business still exists (or for that matter whether my video player is still working or not) but hopes this clears up the matter for Chris Hebbron and possibly others.

Andy Hemming

04/08/20 - 06:52

The video referred to earlier (several years earlier!) would seem to be still available here:- https://railwayrecollections.com

Nigel Frampton

05/08/20 - 06:52

Well, finally after 6 years, I've ordered a copy, to be watched to pass the time 'in lockdown'!

Chris Hebbron

11/08/20 - 05:33

I was fascinated to see the picture of one of Manchester's motor-cyle inspectors. As a student in Manchester, I was resident in an annexe to a hall of residence on Carill Gardens, which was a cul-de-sac off Moseley Road in Fallowfield. I recall one of the cleaners telling me how in thick fogs the buses would follow an inspector on a motor bike in convoy. She explained how, when the fog lifted one day, in our cul-de-sac was a man on a motor bike followed by a convoy of buses; apparently the plan was that they followed the bike rider who found his way by following the kerb - in this case, off of Wilmslow Road, which they were intending to travel, onto Moseley Road and thence into Carill Gardens where they were well and truly stuffed, being able to neither turn round nor, due to the fog, to reverse! I loved the picture as I assumed a motor bike meant a standard two-wheel thing; not a wonderful contraption like that - is there any chance of any having survived?
The site of Carrill Gardens is now occupied by Oak House which I assume is student accommodation. Vaguely relevant to this tale may be the fact that Frank Cowley had a yard adjacent to the Wilmslow Road/Moseley Road junction and it's site too is now under Oak House. If buses had DNA maybe I could go and dig there and find some trace of the Southdown full-front PD3s which were passing through on withdrawal during my time in Manchester.

Peter Cook

12/08/20 - 09:41

Motorised trikes had numerous uses, the Manchester one was possibly a standard commercial one. This isn't exactly the same model but can be seen at the Nation Motorcycle Museum.

John Lomas

19/11/20 - 07:10

During my student vacations in 1971 and 1972 I worked for Blackpool Corporation Transport. We were definitely guards rather than conductors but then, we were all employed on the trams rather than buses. I was one of the few students to go to the trouble of getting a PSV conductors licence but even then, I only ever worked about 5 shifts on buses. I also did a couple of shifts as a 'jumper guard'. I think 'jumper guards' may well have been a practice which was unique to Blackpool. It was something I have never seen done anywhere else. The idea was that jumper guards would collect fares from the queues waiting to board buses, rather than collecting the fares on the bus. So far as I know, it was only ever done for the buses from the town to Stanley Park/Zoo. There might be a queue of 200 or 300 people waiting. The bus would pull in, the first however many would pile on and away it would go, full with standing. The reason behind having jumper guards was that the journey was so short that the guard on the bus would have little chance of collecting all the fares by the time the bus reached the other end even though there were no intermediate stops. The jumper guard issued tickets on blue, as opposed to the usual white, TIM roll so that the tickets could be identified. As there were no return fares, once the loading at the town end was over, the jumper guards would get the bus to the other end and do the same thing there.

Peter Cook

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