The First PTEs - Stockport Corporation

The First PTEs - Part Three - Stockport Corporation

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On October 31st 1969 Stockport Corporation Transport had a fleet of 148 buses plus a handful of service vehicles. The next day all had been transferred to the Southern division of SELNEC whose management may have been rather surprised to find they had taken on charge a 1926 Karrier tower wagon complete with solid tyres that, whilst delicensed, was still in running condition. Another possible oddity, though this is the matter of some debate, was the inclusion of open top tree lopper 226, a Crossley DD42 which had had an altercation with one of the bridges on Georges Rd in 1962 and had been cut down, painted overall red with black lining out and mudguards and certainly served into 1969, until PD2 295 was converted to take over the job. The bus was set aside for possible preservation and was thought to be still owned by Stockport on 31st October and logically should have passed to SELNEC, which would have made it the only Crossley on charge. Eventually the bus was dismantled and the engine passed to the preserved Sunderland Crossley.
295 was definitely taken by SELNEC and became 5995 after a brief period as 2995. In 1972 it was re-licensed as a PSV and became the SELNEC open top vehicle available for hire, receiving full fleet colours making Stockport the only constituent to have a representative of every type handed to SELNEC eventually painted in SELNEC colours.
The double decker bus fleet was, at once, one of the most modern and the most old fashioned to pass to the PTE. Of the 138 licensed PSVs only eleven were greater than 12 years old. Eighty seven were aged between five years and just a few months old. All were traditional PD2s/PD3s, all but six had open rear platforms and only twenty seven were of thirty foot length. The single deck fleet was equally as up to date - though the styling of the four 1958 Crossley bodied Tiger Cubs was more early 1950s than late Swinging Sixties. The five 1968 Leopards did sport a two door layout, a new colour scheme, were OMO equipped and had the interior décor used on the double deckers.
Post war Stockport had chosen Crossley and Leyland chassis and bodies and had restocked well after 1945 - so well that no new vehicles arrived between 1951 and 1958. After delivery of the Leyland/Crossley combinations of 1958, Stockport found itself without any of its traditional body builders and only Leyland as a chassis supplier. Casting round for a new body builder for its 1960 PD2 deliveries it settled on Longwell Green - a most odd choice for a very conservative department - yet the choice proved to be a sound one in terms of quality, though the order was a one off as the 1962 batch of the Leyland product was bodied by East Lancs, which was to provide bodies for every future order.
The 1962 batch saw a little deviation from the conservatism with the specification of St Helens bonnet and grille instead of either the tin front of the previous two orders or the traditional exposed radiator. The St Helens spec was repeated for the 1963 order and it was this batch which saw major changes which set the tone for the next six years.
These vehicles were ordered by Frank Brimelow who had crossed the boundary from SHMD territory. He had a leaning towards Leylands, which had not sat all that well with his former employer, and a definite affinity to green. Whilst Stockport not only resolutely stuck to its smart red and white lined out colours and, 1968 Leopards apart, changed nothing whilst all around were simplifying and downgrading, Frank transformed the vehicle interiors. The 1963 batch sported green ceilings on both decks above dark wood grain vinyl window surrounds and side panels. This actually looked quite well and was further enhanced on the upper deck, on the 1964 batch, where most of the centre roof section was made of translucent material. Frank Brimelow soon moved on but these changes were continued on all further batches.
Tradition returned in 1964 with exposed radiator PD2s and that specification was a feature until the end of the Department. The first 30 foot double deckers arrived in 1968, reputedly because Leyland had decided to withdraw the PD2 from its model range and the first forward entrance PD3s, the last buses to be delivered to the Department, arrived only months before SELNEC took over.
What Stockport lacked in modernity it made up for in quality of maintenance and, as SELNEC shook down its fleet and route structure and introduced OMO across a range of routes, the Stockport fleet found itself in various parts of the Southern and Central Divisions running on crew operated journeys replacing rear engined vehicles, themselves transferred to OMO routes. Stockport was eventually the most prolific donor fleet in the early years of SELNEC.

The oldest Stockport vehicles handed to SELNEC as licensed PSVs were 11 PD2/1s from an original batch of 25 delivered in 1951. 297 and 298 went to Stalybridge where they received SHMD fleet numbers 51 and 52, 52 being repainted green. All but one of the rest also went to Stalybridge where they originally kept their Stockport numbers as shown on 293 and 294 pictured here in Ashton. They replaced the Daimler engined CVD6s, a couple of Atkinsons and the fire damaged Fleetline. The remaining ex-Stockport PD2/1, 302, went to Oldham where it received the pommard and cream livery and was originally numbered 5202 before assuming its correct number, 5922. 293 shows just how quickly standards deteriorated in the early days. The panel containing the SELNEC legal lettering looks to have been repainted in a shade nearer Manchester's red than Stockport's. The wheels are dirty - even though Stockport didn't keep nut guard rings until the PD3s, wheels were regularly cleaned. The blinds have been changed to SHMD ones and don't fit. Stockport shared the 31 but SHMD had route numbers unknown in Stockport. What looks like a sticker has been removed next to the fleet number and both vehicles look a bit care worn.

Leaving the stygian gloom of Chorlton St Bus Station, Manchester, on the limited stop service to Woodford via the A6 through Stockport and thence to the leafier climes of Hazel Grove, Poynton and Woodford, this PD2/40 of 1964 reeks of Stockport's traditional approach to purchases. Wind down windows, draught/drip strips, lined out colours, exposed radiator, black mudguards and a good standard of finish still show through though some SELNECisation has taken place. The fleet number is damaged, the front offside wheel is orange and the back one looks to be green - typical of the early days of the PTE when garages swapped vehicles and parts and an "if it fits, use it" ethos prevailed. 19 became 5819 the SELNEC and later GMT fleets.

Pictured on Warrington St., Ashton in full SELNEC colours and renumbered 5806, YDB 6 was Stockport's 6, a PD2A/30 of 1963. This batch introduced Frank Brimelow's interior colour scheme changes as well as re-starting the fleet numbering at 1. Though Stockport removed nut guard rings, all deliveries from 1958 to 1967 included rear wheel discs which were only discarded from 1968. This batch, 1-10, was the second for Stockport with the St Helens front. In Stockport's scheme the bonnet and grille were all red with black mudguards and tended to unbalance an otherwise elegant colour scheme. The massive areas of SELNEC orange apparent in a frontal view went that much further and was just too much.

Turning at some speed into Ashton Bus Station the same vehicle in this view clearly shows the wind down windows, draught/drip strips and a Stockport peculiarity. This bus has twin spot lamps. The standard specification to the bodybuilder from 1945 was to deliver vehicles with just one spot lamp on the nearside. There is ample photographic evidence of this, as there is of individual PD2s and PD3s from the 1958 deliveries onwards receiving an offside spot lamp, seemingly at random, during their lives. The 1967 order was split by East Lancs between their Blackburn operation and their Neepsend subsidiary. The East Lancs bodies arrived with just the nearside light, the Neepsend deliveries had, for the most part, both. The 1968 deliveries all originally had one light whilst the 1969 PD3s had a mixture of one and two. In an otherwise well ordered operation this seemingly small oddity was quite an aberration.

One query someone may be able to answer. Sometime during the SELNEC era, Daw Bank Works, Stockport, started painting its vehicles' wheels a light grey. I don't recall seeing any vehicles from the Central, Northern or Cheshire Divisions so treated. The grey looked like grey primer and the effect was not good.
Does anyone know why this was done?

Copy by Phil Blinkhorn - Photographs by Roger Cox
08/2013

Click here to view Part Four - Salford City Transport

17/08/13 - 06:32

The comments on foglights are of interest and pick up a comment I made about the SHMD Fleetlines. I suspect you wrote this Stockport article before the SHMD one was even published.
I haven't got access to the full story, but I believe it was driven by legislation. However, even in 1978 a PSV first used before October 1969 could operate with a single fog lamp but those built later had to have two.
Interpretation seems to vary from depot to depot in SELNEC. Manchester, Salford Rochdale, Bolton, Bury and SHMD didn't seem to fit second foglamps to front-engined vehicles, but Stockport, Ashton, Leigh and Oldham did. All the photographs I have taken of Stockport buses (from the Crossley-bodied PD2s onwards), even in 1970, have two, so they seem to modify the fleet particularly quickly. However, a quick trawl round the net revealed that even the G-suffix ones originally had one.
I'm struggling to work out which depot 5806 is working from. This batch was one of the first (after the Leyland-bodied examples) to get dispersed around the other garages. From memory, they went first to Oldham and Ashton and then they were concentrated at Stalybridge - the allocation was rather random and in some cases of short duration. The problem is that both Ashton and SHMD, as well as Stockport, worked the 31. However, the blinds do look like Stockport ones which implies it's before it moved.
As for the grey wheels, the reason I would suggest is to find a colour that would match the various liveries equally well. As you pointed out, a green wheel doesn't look good on a red bus.

David Beilby

17/08/13 - 08:57

Once again David provides some useful additional information. Without accurate dates on the photos available, it is difficult to say if Stockport started to anticipate legislation but there is at least one photo of the one of the 1965 batch (number 35) with an extra lamp taken sometime between removal of its rear wheel discs in 1967 and November 1969. The Neepsend/East Lancs deliveries in 1967 indicate some sort of anticipation as well as a degree of confusion.
Regarding 5806, I strongly suspect it was Ashton based at the time of the photo. It was one of four that went to Ashton, the other six going to Oldham before all ten went to Stalybridge in 1971. The clue is the driver's summer jacket which can be discerned in the first photo and is beige. I have no memory of Stockport issuing these though I think Ashton did.
The grey wheels may well have been an attempt to find a durable colour but they looked odd and why were they restricted to Daw Bank repaints? In any case GMT swiftly repainted them.

Phil Blinkhorn

17/08/13 - 12:04

Although the PTE tried to standardise, there were variations in style between depots. A good example was Oldham's batch of PD3s. If you look here at my website I explain the differences between this bus and others in the batch due to it having been painted at a different depot. I also recall one having a grey centre to the roof, but unfortunately don't have a photograph that shows the feature. I think that was something Stockport did but roofs are so rarely photographed that I can't establish that with any certainty!

David Beilby

18/08/13 - 12:06

There's sufficient evidence in the pictures in Postlethwaite's 'Stockport Corporation' to suggest that all the fleet up to and including the 1951 purchases had grey centres on their roofs. Thereafter it seems to have ceased; it doesn't appear on any of the 'Brimelow' standardised buses thereafter but may have been on the Crossley and Longwell Green bodied vehicles at some stage. Re the fitment of two fog lights; is this indicative of a belief within SCTD that the town had it's own muggy micro climate along with the need for radiator blinds for the extraordinary cold climate experienced on the banks of the Mersey!?

Orla Nutting

19/08/13 - 08:59

Re the grey roof question, the Crossley, Longwell Green and the very first batch of East Lancs bodied PD2s were all delivered with a grey section on the roof, not sure of the purpose but I've noticed many of the various operator's vehicles in London currently have a white section on the roof for some reason.
Another indicator of Stockport's micro climate was the specification of heaters on all vehicles from "as early as" 1958 - when other operators on routes in the town were still operating without such a luxury. As heaters had been available in various forms for years, what was it about the area - and MCTD in particular - that saw so few buses fitted.

Phil Blinkhorn

11/02/14 - 13:10

Think the white section on the roof of current London DDs is that it's supposed to reflect sunlight, after all the recent complaints about the excessive heat on the upper decks during hot weather (not helped by the heaters probably being left turned full on!)

Michael Keeley

12/05/14 - 09:01

The first photo, of PD2's 293/294 is not in Ashton Bus Station, but in Stalybridge Bus Station.

Dave Ward

13/05/14 - 13:01

Dave, I'm puzzled by your comment. Firstly the location is shown as Ashton, not Ashton Bus Station. Why would the leading PD2 have its blind set for the 31 which goes nowhere near Stalybridge? Also Cullen's flower shop has always been in Ashton, currently they are in Market Avenue.

Phil Blinkhorn

14/05/14 - 06:12

I'm inclined to agree with Dave Ward, that the picture of 293/294 is Stalybridge, not Ashton. The buses are standing next to where the bingo hall is now. Probably they are parked between duties, hence the misleading destination. The building directly behind is still there, it was a Robinson's pub called the Albion. I assume the flower shop had more than one outlet. I think this link may show what I mean http://homepage.ntlworld.com/

Michael Keeley

14/05/14 - 06:15

Cullens & Easthams , these days have 6 shops in Ashton-under-Lyne, Hyde, Openshaw, Chorley & two in Blackburn. They previously had a shop in Stalybridge across from the Bus Station,which can be seen on the photos. Look at the background buildings on the first SHMD picture. That former Cullens shop is now a ladies hairdressers, where my aunt had her hair done until six months ago.
It was SHMDs custom to bring buses from Tame Street Depot to Stalybridge Bus Station on a daily basis to enter service. They arrived from the depot still with blinds showing for their last service operated. I have confirmed the location and the practice from photos in other publications.

Dave Ward

14/05/14 - 08:28

The Stalybridge location can also be confirmed by looking at my photo of SHMD 70 on this site, which is in an almost identical location.

David Beilby

15/05/14 - 17:44

Re the location, I have no recollection at all of the Cullens shop in Stalybridge even though I visited the bus station regularly from 1948 to 1985! Just shows what old age does. Thanks to all who have corrected the error.

Phil Blinkhorn