Buses and Coaches in Sale

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Part One - Manchester Corporation

Sale is divided into two equal halves by the A56 trunk road which runs along a north north east to south south west axis through the centre of the town. Three main east-west routes cross the A56. The southernmost of these (Harboro Road to the west of the A56, Marsland Road to the east) used to be a "B" road in the period covered by this article but has now been upgraded to be the main east-west route as the A6144, enabling through traffic to bypass the town centre. The next east-west crossing, then as now the B5166, is Ashton Lane to the west (leading to Ashton-upon Mersey and Carrington) and School Road to the east (turning into Northenden Road after the railway bridge at Sale Station and then becoming Sale Road after Sale Moor). In the 1960s School Road was the main shopping street. The northernmost of the three crossings was formed by Dane Road to the east (the B5397) and the unclassified Glebelands Road to the west which, like both Harboro Road and Ashton Lane, led to Ashton-on-Mersey. The three routes to the east of the A56 also converged, with Marsland Road joining Northenden Road at Sale Moor to form Sale Road, and the successor to Dane Road merging in half a mile further east. The only other important through route was Brooklands Road which left Marsland Road immediately to the east of Brooklands Station and headed straight as an arrow in a south south easterly direction for Baguley on the main A560 from Altrincham to Stockport. Until the early 1930s Manchester Corporation's main contribution to the town's public transport was provided by three tram services. The 47 and 48 from Manchester to Altrincham stuck to the A56 for most of their routes while the 49 turned east in Sale town centre on Ashfield Road, a block to the north of School Road, passing Sale Station before terminating at Sale Moor. Ashfield Road was used as School Road met the A56 at a slightly oblique angle too sharp for a tramcar arriving from the north. All three routes retained their existing numbers when converted to motor-bus operation. The 49 was later extended at the Sale Moor end to two termini serving new housing, one fork extending via Conway Road to the junction of Norris Road and Helsby Avenue and the other via Derbyshire Road South to North Parade. Both variations used the route number 49 for more than 20 years until the service was combined with the replacement bus routes for the Manchester-Moston trolleybuses to create cross-town services 112 (Moston-Manchester-Helsby Ave) and 113 (Moston-Manchester-North Parade).
By 1962 the very frequent 47/48 (every 10 mins or better) were being operated by an eclectic mixture of everything that Princess Road garage had to offer, ranging from the famous "4100" batch of exposed radiator Daimlers to brand-new Fleetlines. Inevitably the Fleetlines began to eliminate their older compatriots as the decade went on, with most being of the "Manchester" type with a revised lower front panel. As part of the renumbering of MCTD routes in the late 1960s the 47/48 became the 63/64.The 112/113 were also operated by "4100s" from Princess Road, but Rochdale Road garage's share of the two services added some variety in the shape of PD2s with MCW Orion bodywork. The old Daimlers rattled a lot less than the PD2s.
Later developments, operated by motor buses from their inception, were services 50, 91, 99, 150, 161, 152, and 201.
The 50 left Manchester city centre for Northenden via Wilmslow Road and Palatine Road and then continued via Sale Road, Sale Moor, and Marsland Road to its terminus at the junction of Belgrave Road and Washway Road (the A56) which has already been mentioned. MCTD described this terminus as "Brooklands", which was as inaccurate as many of their destinations, being well to the west of Brooklands Station which was itself barely in the area most locals considered to be Brooklands. The service was fairly frequent (every 20 mins, increasing to every 15 during Saturday daytime) and at the time that I arrived in Sale was being operated by the "4400" batch of Daimlers with "pre-Orion" Metro-Cammell Phoenix bodywork and "tin front" radiator cowlings. Daimler CVG6s with MCW Orion bodywork followed by the end of the decade.
Service 91 was much less frequent and ran from Manchester to Ashton-on-Mersey via the A56, Glebelands Road, Grosvenor Road, and Ashton Lane. Its original terminus was at "Ashton Village", a small parade of shops close to the junction of Ashton Lane and Harboro Road, but in the late 1940s it was extended to a new housing estate at Manor Avenue, and then (in 1960) across Carrington Moss to the new Manchester "overspill" development at Partington. The 91 was a joint service with North Western despite originally being worked exclusively by Corporation vehicles. The "joint" status was necessitated by the 1928 agreement between MCTD and North Western which stated that any new services to the east of the A56 would be worked by the Corporation and any to the west by the BET operator. After the 91 was extended to Partington the situation had to be amended as the service then passed under a low railway bridge between Carrington and Partington, and Manchester had no lowbridge buses. From 1960 until 1966 North Western operated the all-day "full length" service while Manchester provided peak hour short-workings between Manor Avenue and the city centre. In the North Western renumbering scheme of 1962 the full length journeys became the 222/223 (the latter diverting onto a private road through the Petrochemicals complex) while the short-workings from Manor Avenue retained the number 91. North Western's offerings were usually Dennis Lolines while Manchester tended to use the oldest serviceable buses they could find. After Manchester's first low-height Fleetlines were delivered in 1966 the two operators both worked through to Partington, although Manchester had a smaller share of full length journeys due to their monopoly of the peak hour extras.
The 99 took an extremely circuitous route on its way from Manchester to Sale. Leaving Manchester in a southerly direction via Princess Road and Princess Parkway, it continued southwards to the Royal Thorn roundabout, around seven miles from the city centre. It then turned west onto the A560 as if bound for Altrincham, but after a mile or so turned northwards to serve the Wendover Road part of Manchester's Northern Moor housing estate. Continuing via Maple Road it then turned right into Brooklands Road and travelled north north west to Brooklands Station, then west into Marsland Road (briefly joining the number 50) and right into Washway Road. Half a mile later it turned right into Ashfield Road, passing Sale Station before forking left onto Broad Road and then travelling via Priory Road and Dane Road to its terminus at a triangular island on the corner of Dane Road and Temple Road. Or, to put it another way, immediately outside my parents' house. The service operated every 20 mins at peak times and half-hourly at other times. When I arrived in Sale it was being worked by a mixture of "Phoenix" and "Orion" bodied Daimler CVGs, but at the end of the 1960s it became one of the first services to be worked by Ralph Bennett's new "Mancunian" double-deckers. Imagine my surprise when I woke up one morning to see the new equipment on its first regular working into Sale - I'd already seen many of them on other services but that morning the future arrived at Dane Road!
The 150/151/152 were peak hour only limited stop services aimed at commuters working in the city centre. The 150 started at the North Parade terminus of (all day) service 113 but eschewed Derbyshire Road South for a route via Norris Road, Conway Road, Sale Moor, and Sale Station before leaving the borough as an express to Manchester Central Station and "Piccadilly" (actually Parker Street). The other two services both started at the Woodheys terminus, just off the A56 at the southern end of Sale, and then ran as expresses to the city centre - "Exchange" (St Mary's Gate) in the case of the 151 and Chorlton Street Bus Station for the 152. Equipment on all three services varied, although it was always noticeable that the 150 (which served council estates) got very old buses while the 151/152 (which served a relatively posh area) were worked by much newer ones. Double-deckers were the norm until 1966 when single-deck Panther Cubs began to appear on the 151/152.
The 201 was a latecomer to the scene, starting in 1969, and ran from Woodhouse Lane (to the west of the A56 near Woodheys) to Sale Station, Sale Moor, and North Parade. The concept of a local route serving Woodhouse Lane had been raised sporadically since the late 1930s, but the 1928 agreement between the Corporation and North Western proved to be a major hurdle. Woodhouse Lane was in North Western territory while any realistic town centre terminus would be in Corporation country. North Western had little genuine interest in providing the service (as 80% of any revenues would pass to MCTD - the A56 itself was considered to be on the Corporation side of the line) but was equally reluctant to let Manchester break the 1928 agreement. North Western wanted a larger share of the revenues than Manchester was willing to offer. Stalemate ensued for more than three decades, illustrating all that was wrong with the old system of regulation. Only the impending threat of the SELNEC pte brought a triumph for common sense. The service was operated exclusively by MCTD, initially with Panther Cubs and then by their larger cousins. Oddly, despite this fact, the number 201 had actually been allocated to the potential route by North Western during the 1962 renumbering scheme, although the route they had in mind at that time had only run from Woodhouse Lane to their Woodlands Road terminus.
Manchester Corporation also operated works services in Sale. The 71 ran from Sale Moor and Sale Station to Trafford Park while the 71x ran to the same destination from Wythenshawe Park via Sale Road, Norris Road, Sale Moor and Sale Station. In Manchester's scheme of things an "x" suffix on a works service generally denoted one unavailable to the general public, and such services often duplicated route numbers already used by unconnected services. Such was the case with the 24x. The "ordinary" 24 was the old Yelloway service from Manchester to Rochdale (jointly operated by Manchester, Oldham, and Rochdale) while the "24x" ran from the Benchill Hotel in Wythenshawe to the Barton Dock Road industrial estate via Wythenshawe Park, Sale Road, Sale Moor, and Sale Station. The 71, 71x, and 24x were generally operated by the oldest buses Northenden garage could find.
An even stranger example of Manchester's route numbering system could be observed running along the A56 during peak hours. The route number "0x" was used for two separate workings. The first ran from Manchester city centre via the 47 route (later the 63) as far as Broadheath and then turned westwards onto the industrial estate to terminate at the Linotype works. The other started in Altrincham at MCTD's Downs Hotel terminus and then travelled up the A56 as far as Stretford before forking left for the Barton Dock industrial area. It was thus possible (at around 7 am on weekday mornings) to see two aging Princess Road double-deckers heading in opposite directions along the A56, wearing the same "route number" and with (usually) blank destination blinds. Hard to believe that this was the same operator which prided itself on its comprehensive destination displays. A second "Linotype bound" 0x headed southwards through Sale at around 8.15 am and this journey (for salaried staff!) was operated for a time by Manchester's last Crossleys. Despite being a restricted service I managed to ride to school on it on many occasions - the conductors didn't seem very bothered about the licensing rules and even less bothered about collecting fares from weird schoolboys who liked old buses!
Beside the 71 from Sale Moor to Trafford Park, there was one more MCTD works service from the area which wore a "proper" route number as opposed to one of the "x" designations. This was the 149 which ran from Ashton-on-Mersey via the 91 route as far as Stretford and then into Trafford Park. I have attempted to research this service (which I never saw operating in ten years of living in Sale) but the evidence seems to be contradictory. There is no trace of a licence application for the service in the Corporation's 1931 applications to the new Traffic Commissioners, suggesting that it was a later innovation. However, according to the terms of the 1928 agreement between Manchester and North Western any new service introduced after that treaty should have been jointly operated by both signatories - at least on paper if not in practice. Can anybody out there enlighten me on this subject?

Neville Mercer
03/2014

Link to view Part Two - North Western

21/03/14 - 18:07

Thank you, Neville for this insight into an area I only had limited knowledge of. These memories are the reasons why we are now still bus enthusiasts - not for any misguided rose-tinted nostalgia but simply because we had so much variety to see and search for. Who can imagine today's youngsters having the same interest (assuming you could get them to lift their heads up from a phone/games machines and look out of the window)?

Paul Haywood

21/03/14 - 18:07

Brings back happy memories of my time at Sale (1976 - 1980) - and Manchester (1971 - 1975). What I cannot understand is the licencing of the area. Sale was in Cheshire (until 1974) and North Western was the local operator. Manchester was the neighbour from Lancashire. Why did they have the services east of the A56 of right? SELNEC (1969) and then GMT (1974) would obviously have changed this and I only knew Sale in GMT days. The low height Manchester Met-Camm Atlanteans were common fayre on the 222 to Partington - past my home on Ashton Lane. I was annoyed when it was changed to 262. The alliteration of 222 to Partington was lost for ever!

David Oldfield

22/03/14 - 08:33

An excellent piece Neville, redolent with memories. Two comments:
The 4400 batch had bodies unique to Manchester. Whilst they had components from both the Phoenix and the Orion, the former well regarded by Albert Neal though no longer in production, the latter in its early form immediately rejected, I can find no record of the type being given a name. They certainly were as good as the Phoenix bodies and better than the Orion's on the 3400 class of PD2s, so it is interesting to speculate about just how those Orion bodies were purchased given the next two body orders went to Northern Counties and Burlingham.
Did MCW refuse to produce more or did Mr Neal relent and, given the work MCW had put into beefing up the Orion, decide to give it a try?
Regarding route numbers, the 0x route number was also used by Princess Rd for weekend workings to Baguley Sanitoriums, now Wythenshawe Hospital.

Phil Blinkhorn

22/03/14 - 12:07

David, the situation re MCTD and North Western is rather complex and was also replicated in Stockport and Oldham.
To simplify a very tortuous situation which pertained for over 50 years, North Western was the interloper, having expanded from a small base in Macclesfield and then centred itself on Stockport with depots around Cheshire and, oddly, Oldham. It also had a depot in Manchester.
Wherever it tried to gain routes in and to Stockport, Manchester and Oldham it originally met opposition from the local councils. In 1928 the establishment of the cross Manchester express services led to NWRCC being invited into Manchester from various parts of Cheshire on a "by arrangement" basis with some fairly complex fare and running arrangements. Generally North Western's own routes into the city which they operated almost under sufferance terminated at the inconvenient outpost of Lower Mosley St but services which had had joint operation as part of the express arrangements ended up at Parker St when the services were truncated and cut in two.
In terms of the Sale and Stretford areas, MCTD had its own problems with Stretford Council and some of the development by NWRCC through and to the west of the boroughs was as a result of these difficulties but Manchester always was the major provider along the corridor as Altrincham, Sale and Stretford had no bus operations of their own. It was recognised, however unwillingly, as the 20th century progressed, that the majority of people moving out to housing along the corridor were employed either in the city centre or in Trafford Park and MCTD was the natural provider, a situation that expanded when the city council built overspill housing in the Partington area and provided the bus service as a consequence, NWRCC being allowed to participate, again in a complex manner in regard to presence, mileage and revenue and pretty much as the junior partner.
NWRCC's junior status led to its eventual demise. With the bulk of its revenue being provided by services into the SELNEC area, or by the hard won services entirely within the conurbation, it could not compete and the end of the BET empire saw National Bus unwilling to keep the rather overpowered company in existence.

Phil Blinkhorn

08/04/14 - 07:58

Manchester Corporation's "Exchange" destination probably referred to the Royal Exchange building, which is bounded by Exchange Street, Market Street and Cross Street just a few yards east of St Mary's Gate.

Peter Williamson

08/04/14 - 17:00

Exchange was used as a terminus by Manchester trams. After the war a complete block was cleared and Exchange Gardens were created. Although there quite a few services called there, it doesn't seem to have been generally used as a terminus. Despite that I used to catch a special 40 (the old 40) working that started from there in the morning and went through Piccadilly and down Portland Street. Confusion was caused by buses terminating on Cross Street also using "Exchange" as the destination.

David Beilby

09/04/14 - 08:20

It's correct that several routes passing by St Mary's Gate used it only as the 'Exchange' stop. However, a couple of routes spring to mind that terminated there up to the end of MCTD activities namely the 102 to Wythenshawe and the 64 (nee 48) to Altrincham. I think the 151 express from Woodheys also terminated there though I never saw one in service, but then again I never knew that an (old) 40 commenced there rather than the Waldorf Café on Princess Street at one time so I live and learn.

Orla Nutting

09/04/14 - 08:21

I didn't know about "Exchange Gardens", which explains a lot. My comment was actually intended for the Introduction section of this article, which mentions "Exchange", as the terminus of the 48, not being anywhere near Exchange Station or the Corn Exchange. My recollection is that the 48 and 102 (Woodhouse Park) used "Exchange" to denote St Mary's Gate, whereas the 41 used "Royal Exchange" to denote Cross Street.

Peter Williamson

09/04/14 - 18:03

I think the information from both Orla and Peter regarding Exchange and St Mary's Gardens is substantively correct. I'm still travelling so can't access my archive but will be home just before Easter and will see if I can add anything then.
One thing I can say for certain is that the 'old' 40 only reached that part of town in peak periods and only certain workings. The rest all finished in Albert Sq, and were supposed to run empty into Princess St and start outside the cafe opposite the side of the town hall.

Phil Blinkhorn

11/04/14 - 06:34

Sale would also see the green buses of Salford City Transport a couple of times a day as they shared the operation of the Churchill's (Broadheath) to Broughton service (47 Salford, 47x Manchester) with Manchester Corporation.

John Hodkinson

11/04/14 - 17:46

Are you sure that Salford actually operated on this one, John? The reason I'm querying it is because the buses from Churchill's (and Linotype) used to travel along Washway Road on weekday afternoons just as I was travelling home after detention (!) and I saw many Manchester Corporation 47Xs (usually displaying blanks in their destination apertures) but no Salford vehicles in five years of this routine. I think that if they did take an active role it must have been in the mornings only. Do we have any Salford experts in the house?

Neville Mercer

12/04/14 - 08:03

I have a copy of "Old Gillander's", a directory of Manchester services put together by Mike Eyre from notes made by the erstwhile Traffic Superintendent (or some similar post). This 47 service is listed together with the 52x and 84x, and there is a specific reference to it being jointly operated in 1937, but no further reference.
Works services don't seem to have appeared in Manchester timetables until around 1960, but they are shown after that as the 47x initially, then latterly as a 63x (63 being the new number for the parent 47) or as 0x. There is no reference to Salford on the timetables, nor does my 1967 Salford timetable show this service, but I'm not sure whether Salford would list such services.

David Beilby

13/04/14 - 07:16

Salford were certainly operating some journeys on the 47x from Churchill's to Broughton in the 1950s and 1960s. It was also included in their timetable books in the 50s and 60s.
The only journey that I can recall for certain is the overtime bus (probably on a Tues and Thurs evening) but I think they also operated one of the morning journeys.

John Hodkinson

04/10/14 - 07:15

I have just discovered this wonderful article. I lived in Sale until 1966. From 1962-1965 I went to school in Manchester on the 48, or the 151 if I made it to my stop on Washway Road at the end of The Avenue early enough. Contrary to the suggestion that Woodheys got posh buses, I don't recall anything but some of the last Crossleys. In response to one of the other questions, I think I would definitely have remembered Salford buses on Washway Road if there have ever been any. I too vividly remember the first Mancunians appearing on the 99, and the impressive sight of the Alexander bodied NWRCC Fleetlines trying to get up School Road faster than walking pace on a Saturday morning.
Fortunately my parents indulged me so our shopping trips to the city often used the 50 or 99 as a treat for me. My country visits to Cheshire were to my grandparents in Middlewich, where I discovered the Bristol/ECW combination, which was just as well as I moved to Redcar in United country in 1966. Thank you so much.

Chris Moore

22/04/17 - 10:05

I would like to point out that the 91 route started in 1936 and was originally the 72 and terminated at Ashton Park. It was extended a little later to the junction of Dunbar Lane/Church Lane at the back of the village shops and then re-routed via Grosvenor Road and Ashton Lane to the corner of Buck Lane. The final terminus before continuation to Partington was at the junction of Manor Avenue and Carrington Lane.
The route was renumbered to the 91 in 1947. There was a works weekday service provided in the late 1950's from Ashton to Trafford Park numbered 149.

Phil Thom

24/04/17 - 07:45

Excellent factual and nostalgic article.
With reference to Salford operating on the 47x works service to/from Churchills at Broadheath I don't know if they actually did physically operate on the route although it was shown as a joint service, but I can show a timetable page from the SCT Timetable 1952.

David J Smith

24/04/17 - 07:47

The question of Salford Buses along Washway Road, Sale is an interesting one. I Joined Salford City Transport in 1965, working in the wages dept and later on in the Traffic Office. Let me say firstly that I have no recollection of Salford Buses running to Sale. However and secondly, looking at the history of Churchills (see under Graces Guide to Industrial History) Churchills were a Salford business from the early 1900's and they outgrew the factory in Broughton, Salford. After acquiring land and building a new factory in Broadheath, Altrincham in the 1920's it is certainly conceivable that Salford ran buses to the new factory there for the workforce, who were domiciled in Salford. Churchills played an important part in the manufacturing process of aviation materials and in war time, were involved in other manufacturing processes.

Mike Norris

25/04/17 - 07:17

In Thanking David S for showing the 1952 Salford Timetable, I have looked further and checked the 1975 TPC Book by Ted Gray - Salford City Transport. In the 1968 list of services, shown, is the part day 47 service, and shown as joint with Manchester. Towards the back of the book the map section, dated 1969 it shows the main all day services and the part day services, but the 47 had disappeared. And one last thought, the Salford bus livery was red until Mr Blakemore changed that to green, so until around 1947, a Salford bus would not have stood out against its counterpart Manchester buses in Sale.

Mike Norris

27/04/17 - 10:38

Regarding the change of Salford's livery, this was nothing to do with the hapless Mr Blakemore whose ineptitude had not only almost run the Salford fleet into the ground but had attracted the detailed attention of government officialdom not a few times during World War 2.
Totally out of his depth, when he eventually departed in 1946, he had already overseen the ordering of no fewer than three chassis types for double deckers to be delivered in 1947, a major nonsense for an engineering department short on expertise and with a long list of problems to solve within the existing fleet.
His replacement, Charles Baroth, amongst a multitude of changes and improvements, had the livery changed from red and ivory to green and primrose, not only to distinguish the vehicles from Manchester's but to highlight his new regime, arranging for the first few of the 1947 deliveries already in the red scheme to be repainted immediately after and before delivery, the rest were painted green as they came off the body builders' lines.

Phil Blinkhorn

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